SPEAKER_03: 0:00

The words just came to me. Literally, I took out my phone, didn't know. I was just like, a black girl in her brace. A black girl in her brace. Can't tell her nothing. Please don't touch it. You know she looks amazed. And then I left it at that. I was like, all right, I want to do something with that.

SPEAKER_01: 0:36

What's up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of my podcast. I'll just let myself in. It's the podcast where we don't wait for an imaginary permission slip or some seat at an imaginary table. We let ourselves into our God-given doors. On this podcast, if you're a regular watcher or this is your first time, what will happen is this you will leave here encouraged, maybe a little bit challenged, but more than anything, inspired to stop procrastinating and go ahead and walk through your God-given doors, allowing yourself to be let in to the opportunities that God has for you. I have a guest today. And as you guys know, when I have a guest, it's someone who is worth your while to watch, worth your while to listen to. And this guest is one of the best. On my, I was about to say on my couch, we've changed up the set. We've changed up the set. We used to be on the couch. Okay. At my table today, uh, I have an award-winning actress, a writer, a poet, and spoken word artist. And if you've ever seen her on stage, let me tell you the energy is magnetic. She is the creator of the very, very viral of Black Girl and Her Braids. Uh, Black Girl and Her Braids. I'm gonna tell you something about that sound and that video. It's gone viral. It's been, the sound has been used by Tia Maori, Tracy Ellis Ross, Candy Burrs, Bozemar St. John, and more Michelle Obama stylists, just everywhere. The sound was everywhere. And because she is such a savvy businesswoman, she has taken the concept of that sound and created a children's book, A Black Girl and Her Brade. She has signed a book deal with none other than Penguin Random House. Ladies and gentlemen, I am here with the Jailen Clark Owens. Welcome.

SPEAKER_03: 2:25

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I love this seat at the table. I love what you're doing. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 2:32

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Now, you guys don't know this, but Jaylene and I went to high school together. So we go way back, same year, everything. Yes. Um, and so we uh were talking earlier just about some of the influences that that we were able to go to FDA. So if you're from New York, if you're from Harlem, you know FDA, Frederick Douglass Academy. Um I can't speak for it now, but back then, because I only because I'm not there, that's no shade at all. Um, but you know, back then it was a no-joke.

SPEAKER_03: 2:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 3:00

If you did not come in your uniform you were sent home. Hello. It was not a joke. Yes. That's cool. Um we had visitors from presidents to congresspeople to performers, artists, NBA players. It was an incredible place to be and to grow up. And you went there from middle school through If seventh grade. From seventh grade. So I want to I want to hear you talk a little bit about how not just FDA, but growing up in Harlem, you know, impacted you and how it has lent itself to the woman that you've become.

SPEAKER_03: 3:33

Yes, I think I love Harlem. All day, Harlem. Everybody from Harlem, boy. We can't.

SPEAKER_01: 3:38

But you know, I'm from Brooklyn and I can't, you know, I tell people you can't know me for 10 minutes without knowing I'm from Brooklyn. So I respect it. And I love Harlem too. Shout out to him.

SPEAKER_03: 3:47

Um, I think Harlem has such rich culture, especially given that this is, you know, the birthplace of the Harlem Renaissance. And, you know, so there's already the history. But then growing up in Harlem, I went to a church called Harlem Tabernacle. Shout out to Harlem Tabernacle. Um, and even there, my church was so so many, so many artists went to that church. And so I have been constantly just steeped in in the arts around me. And I think that that really shaped me. Like I was in the choir, shout out to the voices of Judah. Um, I was in the choir, and I there were so many actors. Um, Leonard Thomas, who was in the movie Malcolm X, like uh Denise, Denise Fernandez, like there are so many people who went to my church. And so I think Harlem, you can see art all around, going every year to Harlem Week and seeing people perform and going to the African American Day Parade. Parade!

SPEAKER_01: 4:48

Shout out to the African American Day Parade. Hello, shout out to my sister Veronica Hickman, who worked with the African Day Parade. Still, yes.

SPEAKER_03: 4:54

I love that. So, you know, we were just surrounded by culture at all times. So I think that really did help to shape me into who I am today, and knowing that this career in the arts is possible because I've been surrounded by it pretty much my whole life.

SPEAKER_01: 5:08

Yeah, yeah. And it's so important, you know, when we talk about representation mattering, I always tell people you don't know when you are blessed to grow up steeped in your own culture.

SPEAKER_02: 5:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 5:19

You know, when I lived in Atlanta for a bit, I was around people, black people who had never had black teachers who were like, yeah, my whole like from K through 12, I probably had two black teachers. And I was like, I always had black teachers. My K through eight was a black female PhD principal. So I didn't even know that there was a world where a woman couldn't have a PhD and be running the show. Yeah. That never even dawned on me. Yeah. Thank the Lord. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because that's what I saw from kindergarten through eighth grade. And then when I got to FDA, Dr. Hodge might as well have been black. Right. But we had black teachers, black administrators, and even people who were not black were culturally educated and loved black people. Yes. And so I think it really informed the confidence in which I walk through the world because I just don't subscribe to any ideas of being less than. Yes. And I feel like you're the same, right? You know? Um, and so you have this way with words. And let me tell you something. Um, Jailena's not new to this, she's very, very true to this, okay? When we were in high school, she was writing poetry, performing poetry, um, and just always a very, I remember you being, because we weren't super close. We were just cool. You know, we had classes together, we say what's up. Yeah. Always had a very, very warm personality, very confident, natural before people were natural.

SPEAKER_00: 6:45

Hello.

SPEAKER_01: 6:46

This is what I remember I'm about to do. With the little flower in the hair. Yes, with the flower in the hair. Maybe maybe girl was just got NDRE at 15, okay? Okay, in the ninth grade. Um, but always very warm and very confident. When you think about the state of black girls in their hair today, and and this is no condemnation because I be weaved and wigged and braided and everything in between, right? But we are seeing younger and younger girls abandon their actual hair. You know, it's always a wig, it's always a weave. Um, and then the we've gotten away from natural hair in some ways. And I think this whole call to our braids, you know, it's cultural. What do you see in the landscape of black hair today?

SPEAKER_03: 7:36

You know, I I would say, yes, I see that there is, especially on television, on Instagram and things like that, you can see a lot of women with, you know, the long leaves, the the baby hair. Bust down. Yes. Yes. And that there's nothing wrong with that. Um, but I also do see that I feel like in my personal life, most of the women that I know have natural hair. Um, and so I think growing up, I we did not have the natural hair beauties, the natural hair influencers, and stuff like that. And so I am appreciative that in this time there is an abundance of information that if your guardians are exposed you to those things, you can see countless examples of people who have natural hair and are sporting it proudly and teaching you how to care for it, what products I should use, what routine I should do. Like that is there. And that's something that I did not have. I remember as a child, my mom would always uh braid my hair. And, you know, God bless my mom. She she wasn't, you know, she wasn't doing, you know, intricate design.

SPEAKER_01: 8:52

Yeah, she wasn't Fatima. She was just who she was. But she braided it on up.

SPEAKER_03: 8:56

Yeah. And so, but at some point I grew to feel like, oh, this is like for a little kid. It didn't even dawn on me that I could wear my hair in a fro. That literally, I I never even thought of that. Whereas fit where I whereas now I feel like the kids do see that representation. So I love that. Um, but there's, you know, there's so many outside forces. It's what is what is your child tuned into? I think it could be very easy for them to see a certain model of, you know, maybe it's a rapper or an actress or whoever that wears their hair straight, and they may think that that's the only beautiful thing out there. Um, but that's why I say if I think if if you just are surrounded by people who are pouring into that child and showing them other options, there's plenty of options to see, which I love.

SPEAKER_01: 9:42

Yeah, that is, and that's a beautiful thing for this generation. I think I've even seen a couple of years ago this was, but uh I saw girls wearing their natural hair to prom. And that just uh, I was just like, because we didn't even think I well, I didn't even think that was an option. Listen, that was me.

SPEAKER_03: 9:57

Like at our prom, I had that was in flat twist. Remember everybody had flat twist? Last flat twist. I had the flat twist in the front, and then you know, it goes around with the little frame and then in the back, I had a fro that was tracks. So I had a big old fro with flat twist in the front. And it was like, yes, that was people didn't even think of it. Yeah, no, we didn't. And so the fact that you just said that, I'm like, yes, good, baby girls, go ahead and feel free to wear your hair however you want to. Yeah, you know, I love it. I love it.

SPEAKER_01: 10:29

So let's talk about a black girl in her braids. Yeah, where did you come up with that song?

SPEAKER_03: 10:33

God, God whispered in my ear. Um, I so I was going to visit my friend Hollis.

SPEAKER_01: 10:42

Shout out to Hollis. Shout out to Hollis. We being the DM me and Hollis being the DMs. Never mind. I think you know the clips. Okay, so I know Hollis via social media. Okay, and we've always followed each other like on social media. And so we just show each other love. And I guess you know, when you start realizing you know so many people, the same people, yes, because she had an event the other day and I was trying to go. She did. Um, but shout out to Hollis.

SPEAKER_03: 11:06

I love the listen. Shout out to you, Hollis. I love that.

SPEAKER_01: 11:08

Let me tell you, I love, let me tell you, any chocolate girl doing anything, I'm like, I'm following, I'm liking, I'm supposed to.

SPEAKER_03: 11:15

Yeah, look out for Hollis Heath, okay. Curator, artist of the Heap Gallery, okay. Um, but yes, that has been my best friend since literally four years old, which is why I say a black girl and her braids really has started since since I was four. Because the seeds were planted. Because I went to visit Hollis, and she was living in LA at the time, and I got, you know, as many black girls do, I got my vacation braids, so I don't have to worry about my hair. Um I can't. You're ready to get me some too. And I'm listening I went to Bally African hair braiding in Philadelphia, and it's the same woman actually that did that did these braids. Um, Bally herself did these, and um, then it was medium knotless. So I got my medium knotless for the first time. And I was over there, Hollis and I were literally just frolicking on Rodeo Drive, not buying anything. Right, literally just went to take photos. Yeah, living your life like that. That's Black Girl Joy. Yes, and I was just like, these braids look so nice. Like I'm I'm in the mirror, like this is nice. I said, it is a very special feeling to be a black girl in her braids, getting your hair done and just you that confidence and just feeling like, oh, I feel so free, I don't have to worry about my hair, but it looks good. And so I was like, I I want to do a poem about this. Whenever I feel strongly about something, whether it's extreme joy, frustration, a social justice thing, like I'm like, I need to write about it. So I said, I'm gonna write this poem. So one day I think Hollis went out to the supermarket and I was just in her bedroom chilling, and the words just came to me. Literally, I took out my phone, didn't know. I was just like, a black girl in her braids, a black girl in her braids. Can't tell her nothing. Please don't touch it. You know she looks amazed. And then I left it at that. I was like, all right, I want to do something with that. And I came home, I said, I know I want to include the Crown Act in it. Because at that time, that was 2021, and I think the Crown Act came out in 2019. So I was like, let me, uh I always wanna, often want to do a social justice angle in my pieces. So I said, all right, it's gonna celebrate Braids, it's gonna mention the Crown Act, boom. So I did the poem. I wrote it, I said, all right, I want to do a video, I wanna do a visual. So I said, first, let me record the track so that I can lip sync the video. And you sound to be good. So I went to, speaking of FDA, I went to Jay Rich, um, Jonah, that's what I call him. Okay, I went to him and he recorded the track. I I literally banged out the beat with my hand, like, this is the beat that I want. Can you make this? And it's a very simple beat. Right. Yes. Um he did that, we recorded the track. Then I got my uh friend Sonny and my friend Taj, who are incredible. Um, Taj is a videographer, Sunny is a director, she does, she does all the things. Nice. Yes. So I got them together and we shot the video around Philadelphia for A Black Girl and Her Braids. Took that video, put it online. Started going viral. I was like, oh my gosh, look at all these people using my work and da-da-da-da-da. Um had to learn some lessons with putting uh content online because then people were using the sound, but then it was being marked as their original audio, and it was a whole thing that I went through. Um, but I learned from that that okay, I need to make the song available in the music library so that people can use it properly. And it can be remain attached to my name because this is my work. So um, once I released the track, then I released the whole album for braids, locks, twists, fro, and switch up, release the remix album, and then I'm I'm seeing all these pe all these women, black women, uploading videos of their little girls dancing to the song. So I said, you know, let me, I could, I could do a children's book, adapt the poem and make it a children's book, because I had previously pitched a different whole different story. And then, yes, I pitched a whole different. Yes, I pitched a whole different book. That didn't really go anywhere. So I was like, well, now what about this? And I have my two nieces, um, Amani, who is my goddaughter, and Amelia, her sister, so my nieces. Um, these are my friend Sarah's children. And um, I said, you know, they watch me on Law and Order, they watch me doing these different things, and they get so excited. But I'm like, I want something, I want to produce something that is mine, that is for them, that is their age group. So I said, that was enough inspiration. And so I adapted it, and here we are.

SPEAKER_01: 15:58

And here we are. I love it. I love the creativity. I think it's so important for creatives today to realize that you can take one thing and pivot it into so many different things. Because to be honest, you could, and you might already be thinking about doing this, but you could write a book for women called A Black Girl Rage about our relationship with our hair, the discourse around the girl. You could you could now do that too. Like, you know what I mean? And so there's just so much that I think is possible when you create from a pure place that really wants to see people do well. When you think about the Crown Act, when you think about um the fact that we are still in this day and age being discriminated against based on our hair, that a lot of our beauty, our own beauty standards, and I've had to wrestle with this myself, um are rooted in European, you know, silliness, really. Um but how we how we feel going to a job interview. Yes, you know, the fact that we're like, oh, I want to get my hair braided, but I got this job interview. Let me wait until that's over the you know, some of us, you know, still we have to feel, we have to think about how we are gonna be perceived based on our hair. Um what is your love letter to black women and girls about their hair through this book?

SPEAKER_03: 17:19

Yes, I would say that I've often described the book as a love letter to black women and to black girls. Um just letting them know your hair as it is is enough, however you would like to style it. You should feel accepted everywhere. Um you know, in the book I talk about um you know, sometimes, sometimes my mommy says sometimes people put me in a box, um, like labeled bad hair. Um, but you know, I I shouldn't be put in a box. My hair should be accepted everywhere, just the same way I should be accepted everywhere. And so m through through my work, through my writings, through my talks, through my poetry, I am trying to remind black girls that you are valid, you are worthy. Um and these hairstyles, many of them are rooted in culture. It's not just a style. Yeah, it is part of our culture. It's a history. It is it is definitely part of our history going back centuries. It is uh functional in that it can be a protective style. Like we shouldn't be having people try to just dismiss us and our hair because it's a part of us. And so you're if you dismissing my hair, you're dismissing me. Yeah. Um, and so I'm trying to infuse my words with love and affirmations so that when black women and girls read this book, it's like, yes, I see myself, I am reminded that I am worthy, and no matter how I have my hair.

SPEAKER_01: 18:49

Yeah, I love that. When you think about writing, you know, kind of not just the book that you have coming out right now, but the books that you've done, the books that you plan on doing in the future. Uh, if there was someone out there who feels like, man, I want to be a writer, I want to write a children's book, or just a book in general, I want to create viral content, um, but they're in their head about it, or there's no one in their immediate circle who has done it, what advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_03: 19:16

I would say to eliminate all the outside noise, um, don't start thinking about, okay, I want to write this so that it can go here, so that it can go viral, so that I can just just write so that you can release. Write so that you can get out the thoughts that are in your head, right so that you can encourage somebody. And I think if it's coming from that pure place, then things will start to trickle. Those other things will happen, but writing from a place of truth. Um, and even if you don't release it right away, get in the habit of writing. And I love doing interviews like this because it's always a reminder to myself. You know, it sounds real good. When I'm saying it to other people, but I'll be like, you also need to just remember these words. Um consistently writing. You know, I I know life gets real busy. So it'd be it'd be hard. But taking that time, whether it's 15 minutes or 30 minutes, to just write what you how you're feeling, and we'll see where it goes from there. But if you don't do it, if you get stuck in your head about, oh, what's gonna happen? Are people gonna like this? Where's it gonna go? How am I, then you you just gonna be stuck.

SPEAKER_01: 20:28

Yep.

SPEAKER_03: 20:29

But write to release and then let the other word come from that.

SPEAKER_01: 20:34

This is so true. And I think even for me, like I've had season, if you I tell people, if you follow my Instagram since its inception, I done had 15 careers.

SPEAKER_03: 20:42

I've been spoken watching you, and I said, I didn't know. Now you do wear a lot of hats. I do, physical hats, but metaphorically, you also wear a lot of hat. I wear a lot of hats.

SPEAKER_01: 20:52

And I didn't know it was so many hats. And I do a lot of things that it's and the Instant, Instagram, TikTok, socials, they just I don't even talk about because it's just not everybody's business. But um, my careers have spanned spoken word, uh, music, ministry, now media. And what you said is so true because we have to get the ideas out of our bodies. We have to. There's no way that we can ever see what God has for us if we keep everything inside. And I I made a post one time and I was saying, you know, what if that favorite thing that you love, the thing you are obsessed with right now, the podcast that you can't stop listening to, the book you just read, the the new shirt you just bought, you know, what if that thing did not exist because it was still sitting in the Creator's Notes app or journal or brain? Yes, but that's what we do. We withhold what God intends to be someone's deliverance, hello, to be someone's favorite thing, maybe even just to be someone's escape, entertainment. We withhold it because we think it's about us. And what happens for me, whenever I start overthinking an idea and not executing on an idea, I am very quickly jolted into is this about you? Or is this about what God told you to do?

SPEAKER_00: 22:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 22:10

Because guess what? Even if it flops, it's his. It's not, I'm not embarrassed. Yeah. Yes. He told me to do it, I did it. Next, let's get on to the next thing. Yes, you know, and I believe that ideas belong to those who execute them. Because then that's when you can say, it's mine.

SPEAKER_00: 22:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 22:26

But if it was up here, and then 10 months later, so-and-so did you can be like, that was my idea. No, it wasn't. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 22:32

That's so good. That's so because I think about it. Imagine if I recorded that little uh that little clip in LA in Hollis's bedroom. If I would have just left it there. Yep. Literally wouldn't be sitting here right now. That was in July of 2021. And here we are. It is, it is 2020. Whenever this comes out, it's either 2025 or 2020. Early 2026. Okay. Uh, and you know, this all stemmed from that one moment. That could have just been a clip on my phone if I was not obedient because I felt led to record it. I felt led to say, you know what, I want to make a piece about this. And here's why. I'm feeling the strong feeling. I feel like it'll speak to people. Let me do it. But if I had said, okay, I don't feel like doing that, I want to be sitting here right now. I want to be signed to Penguin. I want it, all these different things. I want to be able to interact with so many little black girls. I can't wait. I can't wait to be able to do that. Um, yeah. So being obedient to when you hear it, you get the thought, let it out. Yeah. Because, like you said, you don't know who it's for. Yeah. It may be, yes, it may bless you, but it may bless so many more.

SPEAKER_01: 23:44

Because think about how many girls are gonna grow up on this book, you know? And who are gonna be coming to you in 10 or 15 years saying, you don't know me, but when I was a little girl, my mom bought media book. Like, I envision stuff like that. I'm corny like that. I'll be like, I know one day a girl's gonna come to me and be like, you don't know me, but I got into media because I watched a podcast. But I'm like, I'm doing it for her. Yeah, because there are so many people who are the reason that I'm sitting here doing this. We talked about one of our English teachers, Miss Reed. Yeah, you know, I remember in high school, Miss Reed, if you happen to see this, please read the new adult. We were sitting here talking like this, we know what Ms. Reed is at. But um, yeah, Miss Reed was one of our English teachers, and she was someone who really poured into me in high school because I was like a, you know, I was like one of them, I'm from Brooklyn, so Brooklyn girls, we real hard. We can be very hard, you know, and um jokey and like quick-witted and all of that. And she would say to me, you know, you you have something. Like when you speak, people listen. She's one of the first people to tell me that. And she said, don't just be the funny girl, you know, like don't lose that either. But just know your voice has power, you know. And um, I think about those interactions that I'm possibly able to be that for some young girl. I've done a lot of work in youth ministry and all that stuff, and I always try to really be mindful of my words to pour into these girls because some of these young girls, like we're blessed enough to have, you know, black moms and communities. You grew up in a church, I grew up in church, all this stuff, you know. But some people don't have that. Some people are going home to someone who's telling them they're stupid and they're ugly and all the things. Yeah, so I'm just grateful that this book exists because I know that it is going to be, you know, somebody's saving grace. And speaking of those relationships, you know, you talked about your friend Sarah, I think you said her name once. You talked about Hollis, and I'm sure there are many others. How does sisterhood? Oh I know, right? How does sisterhood play a role into your life as you're aging? Because it's different than just being homies when we were kids, you know? I find that my friends now, the ones who have made it and stuck around.

SPEAKER_03: 25:53

Listen, uh, my sisterhood is just it's everything. Yeah. I feel like I should be a brand ambassador for Marco Polo because I'm always talking about Marco Polo, but it's a it's a service, it's an app, and you can send video messages and stuff. And that is, it is my saving grace because it's hard to be on the phone with somebody every day, you know. But through Marco Polo, I leave messages and you can listen to it when you feel like it. You can put it on double speed, you know, and it allows me to stay connected to my sisters and even the ones that may not have uh polo, we can text and meet up when we can or just hop on the phone. And I don't, I don't know how I would do it without my sisters. You know, I talk to them every day. I am I am I listen to them like a podcast, like a podcast. And um, they we pour into each other every single day. I was just pouring into a friend this morning, had to. Yep. I I said, I know I might have been a little harsh on you, but when I hear you saying stuff that don't make no sense.

SPEAKER_01: 27:08

I got to give it to you.

SPEAKER_03: 27:09

I I don't let nobody talk about my friend, even if you are the friend that's talking about the friend.

SPEAKER_01: 27:13

That part.

SPEAKER_03: 27:13

Talk about yourself. No, we're not doing that. So uh sisterhood, it it fills me so much. And I love having sisters in my life. Um, that when I'm in those moments, when I'm the one that's like, I don't know if I should do this. I'm stressed, I can't do this. What if this, what if that? They have to remind me, I am that girl. Yeah. Okay. And you, you, you are that girl, you always been that girl, and you will continue to be that girl. And we are your girls surrounding you in the moments where you may feel like you're not that girl. Oh, we're gonna remind you. So it's it's very important. And I I I love that this book is just very connected to my sisterhood. Um, like I said, the fact that I got this revelation while visiting Hollis and the fact that my sister, um, her name is Sarah. I call her Cletus. So that's why my brain be like, okay, no, don't call her Cletus right now. Um, but the fact that it's her children that helped inspire the book, like it's all it's all connected. I am who I am because of the people that are surrounding me as well. So shout out to that.

SPEAKER_01: 28:21

Let's talk about a sister who did the illustration. Britney Bond did the illustration on the book. Tell me a little bit about that process.

SPEAKER_03: 28:27

You know, traditional publishing is a whole, is a whole world that I'm continuing to learn. Um, but when it comes to uh uh the publisher, I mean, excuse me, the illustrate illustrator, you know, the publisher typically gives you some options and you see their work and you decide, you pick one. And I I was seeing Britney's designs, her illustrations, and I was like, yeah, I like what she's doing. I like how she draws braids. So I was like, that is the most important thing. You got to be able to draw braids intricately. For for the vision that I had, I said, you gotta be real good. And Britney, she was real good. So um, yeah, I selected her, and it's been it has been an amazing process working with her. She's very open to feedback. And in the publishing world, like I would, I never even spoke directly to her. Like you, it's very like structured. You speak to the design team, the design team communicate, but she was always open, and in everything that I was describing, she was able to do. And I'm so I'm so grateful for that. She's awesome. I can't wait to meet her. That's crazy. It's crazy that you can work on a book so closely with all these people, and some of them never, never meet.

SPEAKER_01: 29:42

So educate me because I don't have a book deal yet.

SPEAKER_03: 29:45

Yet, okay.

SPEAKER_01: 29:47

Um, but educate me on how the process went of signing with such a distinguished house, you know, and just the whole process of writing the book.

SPEAKER_03: 29:57

Okay, let me try to be concise.

SPEAKER_01: 29:59

Don't we got time and we can and we can edit if we can. Okay, if you know, we got you.

SPEAKER_03: 30:03

Okay. So this first started, I think that was 2021, that I had an idea to write a book based on my goddaughter, Amani. I wrote this story called Black Girl You Are Worthy. That was the name of the title. And I was like, okay, so how do I get this published? I started doing my research, and this was before Chat GPT. So I was just Googling and figuring it out. Um I found in my research, I found you need to write a query letter. That's your first thing you need to do. A query letter is what you're sending out to literary agents. Because if you're trying to go the traditional publishing route, you gonna need um an agent. Most traditional publishing houses, the the top, the big five, they they're not, they're not even gonna explain.

SPEAKER_01: 30:50

They're not hollering at you because you wrote them a letter, right?

SPEAKER_03: 30:53

Yes, you got to come with an agent. So first you query the agent. That's a whole format and all of that. So I learned about that. Then I was like, okay, I have to find who who am I gonna pitch? Who are the literary agents I'm pitching? I did a whole bunch of research and made a list. I had my little Excel sheet. I like to be, I'm very type A. So I got to be organized. Made a list of all the agents I want to reach out to. I'm reaching out, I'm reaching out, I'm reaching out. Some people don't respond at all. Some people do say no, we're gonna pass. And in the in the query letter, you're explaining your book, you're pitching your book. Um, and so in my research, um, one of the literary agencies I wrote down was New Leaf Literary Agency. I'm like, okay. So I go to the page, I go to the contact to see who do I who do I look up. I said, huh. Jania Carter. Now, Jania went to FTA. Okay, Jania. Come on, same class. Come on, FDA. I don't know Jania. You don't know Jania. And and I'm gonna picture because I probably do know her. I literally had this conversation with her. I'm like, you know Lish. I need to show you. If I show you the picture, you'll y'all will remember each other. So I said, I didn't know Janine wasn't Lish in the world. So I said, we had already been following each other. So I said, okay, okay, Jania. So we reconnected through that. And I pitched the story. She said, I like this. She pitched it to the team, and nothing really happened then. And she was an associate, uh, associate agent, I guess, at the time. And she said, Well, you stay on long enough, maybe next year, you know, I'll be able to represent you myself. So I was like, okay. Followed up the next year. It still really didn't go anywhere. But then months later, I had the idea about the book. And so I said, Now what you think about this? And she was like, So I got signed to New Leaf Literary Agency with Jania as my agent.

SPEAKER_01: 33:04

I love it.

SPEAKER_03: 33:04

Great. So then now you got the book. I wrote the book. Now you have to pitch it, now she has to pitch it to uh publishers, publishing houses. So she gave me like a list of like 10 to 12 publishing houses, and she just continues to update me. Some people were passing, some people not interested. Some people, we have titles that are too similar, all these things. So at the end of the day, I had two publishing houses that were interested in me. Um, I won't say the name of the other one, um, but it was the other one and it was.

SPEAKER_01: 33:36

No free promo round.

SPEAKER_03: 33:38

It was the other one and it was Penguin. And so I met with the other one, lovely, lovely person, but they wanted to take out the part about um the Crown Act. They felt like they just wanted to focus on the joy aspect. And I said, I I know I don't want to do that. Um so I said, okay, and I had the meeting with that publishing house first. Then I had the meeting with the public penguin. Now the editor I met with was literally a black girl in her brain. Literally. I love it. And the first thing she started talking about was how she wanted to highlight the part about the crowding and all her ideas for that. So I said, see, yeah, that's where I'm supposed to be. We are aligned. That's where I'm supposed to be. So important. I I loved, I loved our interaction, and next thing you know, she they they offered, they said they would like to uh sign me and purchase a black girl and her braids. And so the whole process, it's years and literally years in the makeup. I think I signed with Penguin maybe in 2023. Um and so once once I signed on, then that's when we began the process. But as you can see, it went from pitching a different book brought me to this point.

SPEAKER_01: 34:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 34:57

And yeah, now here we are. And I get to do it with a former classmate and friend of mine.

SPEAKER_01: 35:02

Yeah, that's amazing. And two things that stood out to me from that. First of all, you gotta have the courage. Entrepreneurs, creators, social media personalities, everybody. You have to have the courage to walk away when the vision that God has given you is not whether people support. Even if they want to support 90% of the vision, if God gave you 100%, don't you align yourself with someone who only wants the 90. That is betrayal of your gift and your art. And so, you know, shout out to you for having the courage to say thank you. Thanks, but no thanks. I'm gonna try and see if I can find somewhere else, you know, who will. And and and often when we do that, like you shared, the place that we're supposed to be, it is abundantly clear. There's no question. You said she was she highlighted what she wanted to highlight, and I think it's just important for that. But also, one of the things I really want to point out here is this this is for my young ladies, high school, college. Be a person that people remember well.

SPEAKER_03: 36:07

Hello. Hello.

SPEAKER_01: 36:09

Because if you were a butthead in high school and a bully and a mean girl, I can tell you for sure you wouldn't be sitting at my table right now. Right, that. But then F. Jania didn't remember you well. You know, there are people that we talked about, Mr. Middleton. Shout out to Mr. Middleton, who worked in our high school photographer, just a great mentor all over Harlem. Um, who did your wedding photos, you know? Mr. Middleton looked out for me in many ways, you know. We talked about my dad who also worked at FDA. You know, being remembered well by people will get you so far. And I know high school's a hard time, college is a hard time, you may be going through things, but really think about the way you treat people. Yes. Because it will really come back to help, it will come back to either haunt or help you one day.

SPEAKER_03: 36:55

Because you could be thinking, uh, I'm leaving all these people anyway. It doesn't matter. No, it matters, know it. That thing could come right back around. So yes, I love what you said.

SPEAKER_01: 37:05

And Maya Angelo said it the best. People may not remember what you said or what you did, but they will remember how you made them feel. And um, I can't tell you one conversation that Jaylen and I had in high school, but I can tell you that she was always kind to me, always warm, always nice, and vice versa. And so it was it's been um a pleasure to just see you over the years, excel in this way, um, and see you on stages, see you be courageous enough to speak about difficult things, um, but also do it with so much poise and charisma and swag. I love that. You are going on tour.

SPEAKER_03: 37:41

I am.

SPEAKER_01: 37:42

You're going on a tour to do book signings and speaking engagements. Yes, and I'm just gonna say this for you because you didn't tell me this, but she's also still accepting dates. So if you would like to, if you would like to have her come to your event or your bookstore, please reach out.

SPEAKER_03: 37:56

Yes, your bookstore, your school, your community organization, your corporate organization, your church.

SPEAKER_01: 38:03

Yes, yes, absolutely. So tell us a little bit about this tour. I saw dates all the way from uh the northeast to LA to Georgia. Tell us about the tour.

SPEAKER_03: 38:13

Yes. So right now we're focusing on just the first five initial stops. This is not, this list is not exhaustive. Yeah, okay, but this is just where we're starting. Um, Philadelphia, of course, because I live in the Philly area. We're gonna be at Barnes and Noble. Then I'm going to got to go to Harlem.

SPEAKER_01: 38:29

Period.

SPEAKER_03: 38:30

So going to Harlem School of the Arts, where I was a student. Um and the bookseller for that is Cafe con Libros in Brooklyn. Um and so then we are going to what's after them? Oh, yes, National Harbor. So DMV area at Mahogany Books, then Malik Books in the Los Angeles area, and then Brave and Kind in the Atlanta area. I love it. And, you know, if I could be honest, um, you know, when you speaking of traditional publishing, they they they give you a publicity marketing plan. And initially they said there were no plans for a tour for this title. Um, and uh I said, well, you know, I I do have a plan.

SPEAKER_01: 39:15

Thanks for sharing.

SPEAKER_03: 39:16

But obviously and love, much love to Penguin. Um, but you know, especially I'm a debut author, you know, there's there's things. So, but I said, I think we could do a tour. Because just with Philly in in New York alone, that's two stuff right there. I can get to hello, and I got I got peoples in the DMV. I'm like, we can make this work. So um, yeah, I'm I'm I'm gonna do that tour. And what I'm really excited about with the tour is the sponsorships, the hair care sponsorships, which listen, that was me hitting the pavement, the proverbial pavement, meaning emails, um, and reach and just reaching out. And these brand six black women owned hair companies said yes, off the strength. They don't know me personally. Off the strength of the work that I'm doing and the way I present myself. So I'm very grateful for that. And they'll be, I'll have samples from these places at the tour. So it's very exciting.

SPEAKER_01: 40:11

I'm so excited. And if if she is coming anywhere near you, please, please, please get in the building, go buy a book or seven, get them for your nieces, get them for your friends' daughters, your goddaughters, get them for your future daughters if you don't have children or your daughters if you do. If you are a teacher, we're gonna talk about this in a second, the sponsorship train. But if you are a teacher and you want these titles, this title for your classroom, right? Because our black boys also need to learn about a black girl and her breed. Yes. So that they're not teasing the young black girl who has natural hair because her hair is not like some of the other girls, right? They they need to learn this as well. And so I think this book is going to heal even the more mature of us. Um, I have already pre-ordered my copy. You can pre-order it right now on Amazon, on all the places that books are sold. Yes. Um, and I want you to talk a little bit about the sponsorship train, which is going to give you an opportunity to help this book get in the hands of other people.

SPEAKER_03: 41:12

Yes, the sponsorship train. This is an idea that I saw modeled from Loveia Jae Jones. Shout out to Lovey. I love Lovey. She literally has been the blueprint. Yes. She has her book academy. Um you a part of that? I have I was never part of one of the cohorts. You know, it, you know, it's an investment. Yeah, yes. And it and I think it's worthwhile. Um, so if I could have done it, I would have. Um, but I I did it in the the way that I could. Like I've taken her free. She has a free, she offered a free webinar at one point. There are certain webinars that I was able to purchase. So, you know, I I I like to say I'm part of the book academy, you know. I'm not in the core cohort, but I'm I'm up in there. Yeah, yeah. Um, and I've taken so many notes from her. Like literally, she is the blueprint when it comes to releasing a book. So shout out to you, Lovey. Um, but yes, I got that idea for the sponsorship train through her. So basically, sponsors can fill out a form and say, hey, I would like to sponsor X amount of books. And then uh educational groups, schools or after school programs, somebody people, groups, educational groups servicing the age group, three to seven years old, okay, um, can apply for sponsorship. They can request books. And so once we have a match, I put them together, say, tell the sponsor, hey, this is the address where they'll receive the books, and the sponsor donates the books. I love that. And I just I love that. People helping people. And so if you are an educational organization that would like to request books, because you know, the budget, whatever, whatever, please do. And if you are a sponsor, if you had the the means to be able, and you can donate as as many as five books. If you're like, I can do five books, please do, and I will match you with a group that needs it.

SPEAKER_01: 42:56

Yeah, listen, the book is incredible quality, it's hard covered. Yeah. Um, we got a nice little chocolate girl on the cover. I do have to ask you, right? And I know because we're we're we're dark-skinned girls. Was that ever um a question for you? Like, should I put a dark-skinned girl? Should I, or was it it just wasn't really?

SPEAKER_03: 43:15

It was never a question.

SPEAKER_01: 43:17

Did you get any pushback on that? No. Okay, good. Listen, the world is changing. Amen. I love that. I will. It's true.

SPEAKER_03: 43:24

Years ago, that may not have been just a no-brainer. Yeah, but my team, Lish, yeah, I and I know this is a rarity. My team is pretty much all black women. My illustrator, my editor, my publicist, my agent, the producer for the audiobook, the director of the audiobook, the social media coordinator. These are all black women. Oh, yeah. And I know that that's rare in the literary agency, but I'm thank that's God. Yeah. Because of course, God will surround me with black girls in a book about a black girl on her brain. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01: 44:02

Alignment all the way around. All the way around.

SPEAKER_03: 44:04

So that has been very helpful. I haven't had to, there's that certain understanding that doesn't need to be explained because they already get it. Um, so yeah, definitely I say I got to have my chocolate girl up in there, but then also lots of representation. There's all shades, all abilities. I have a little girl that's in a wheelchair, and she's in a wheelchair just because we don't have to explain it. It's just because there are little black girls in wheelchairs. So they should be represented as well. Little girls, little black girls with glasses and with a gap. Like, yeah, they should be up in there. So I hope that the black girls feel seen when they read this book.

SPEAKER_01: 44:38

Absolutely. Uh, my second to last question is this we talk a lot about God and how he has overseen this journey. Um, we talked before we put the cameras on about our marriages and how grateful and blessed we are to be married to the type of men that we're married to. Yeah. You know, to be able to do the things that we do right now, to have the careers that we have, um, in large part to the support and just uh beautiful way that we're being loved and cared for. Um when days are hard, when a process is two and three years and you're hitting the the the pavement, you know, um, trying to find sponsors and do all these things. What is your prayer? What keeps you going in your relationship with God?

SPEAKER_03: 45:26

I'm always asking God, literally every time I get in the car, I ask for traveling mercies, of course. Favor of parking, yes. Um, and I pray, Lord, for favor of logistics. Just line it up, Lord. Line it favor. I pray every day for favor of logistics because the the way that God sets up the logistics are beyond what I can even comprehend. Correct. The fact, the steps that have been laid out, the fact that he's been setting this up from four years old with me meeting Hollis, setting it up for me meeting Jania, meeting you, you know, like he's been setting this up the whole way in ways that if I were to write it out, I couldn't even think of it. Yeah. And so I always pray just to for that continued favor of logistics. Help me, help me, Lord. Even when I can't fathom how it's gonna work out, yeah, I already know that he's working it out. He's already worked out the logistics, so you ain't got to worry. I saw a quote that said, You you worry too much for somebody who God has never failed. Okay? And I said, You talking to me. You talking to me on that one because that anxiety can creep up in there. Um, but God is He He is the master, He has the master plan, and so I I pray that prayer often, and I think it it works. I love it. And I asked him to just keep me focused on you and keep the right people around me. And that has been happening.

SPEAKER_01: 46:56

That's good. Well, listen, it seems like he's answering them prayers.

SPEAKER_03: 46:59

Yes, he is. Yes, he is.

SPEAKER_01: 47:01

We asked a question to end off the show here, and that question is in the grand scheme of things, what do you want your legacy to be?

SPEAKER_03: 47:08

I want my legacy to be that I want my legacy to be my work. I want my legacy to be the work that lives on the past when I am here. And that work through my through my artistry, I want it to be something that people can turn to for inspiration, that people can turn to um for laughter, that people can turn to in their times of need, and it's work that is always gonna motivate. I like always like to say, I I my poetry, I want it to educate, captivate, and motivate. And I want my legacy, I want that to be my legacy, that people, my work can feed you um through what I am saying, through the way I show up.

SPEAKER_01: 47:55

Um yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. You're well on your way. You working on any new pieces right now? You know, we got we got some things, we got some.

SPEAKER_03: 48:06

I know you are. Um, because I'm learning so much with the writing. Um, amen. You know, I love the children's books. I would also love to, you know, dibble and dabble in some other genres as well, you know. So we're working on that.

SPEAKER_01: 48:22

I love it, but we will be here to support anything that you do. Ladies and gentlemen, Jaylene Clark Owens. Thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_03: 48:30

Thank you, Lish. This is amazing.

SPEAKER_01: 48:32

Absolutely. Thanks for watching another episode of I'll Just Let Myself In. Listen, the book is called A Black Girl and Her Braves by Jalen Clark Owen. I need you guys to go out, get it, pre-order it. Don't embarrass me. Okay, Shena came over here and promoted the book. Please go order the book. But in all seriousness, I pray that from what you heard today, you're able to really see that if you take an idea, a God-given idea, and not just leave it in your notes or leave it in your brain, but execute and walk through your God-given doors, you have the ability to be used to impact so many people. You know, when you watch this podcast, my hope is always that you are inspired to action, not just to receiving inspiration and receiving information, but acting on it. And so I thank you so much for watching. If you listen on Holy Culture Sirius XM channel 140 at 8 p.m. Eastern Standard Time on a Monday night, we thank you for listening there. If you've watched on their YouTube, we thank you for watching there. And if you have watched on my YouTube, Lish Speaks, thank you for watching. And please be sure to subscribe and come back and see us again, same time, same place next week. Peace.