Jared Gerald: 0:00

Y'all have so much power in what y'all say, it can really make or break the man that you're speaking to, you know. So definitely I would encourage, if you can say something nice to one of the men in your life that you love, if you can see him changing and becoming better, encourage him on it, because he might not think anybody sees it. He might be like you know what. Nobody sees me change, nobody cares about this. And if you say, hey, you know, I see you. I see you being more patient, I see you being more loving, I see you being more understanding, that would go a long way.

Lish Speaks: 0:40

I'm quick to send my brother a text Like I'm so proud of you. I was just thinking about you and you're a great dad. You know, because sometimes I just think about him and I'm like man, he's a great man. Beat the statistics, what's up everybody. It's your girl.

Lish Speaks: 1:18

Lish Speaks back with another episode of your favorite podcast. I'll just let myself in. The podcast where we don't wait for an imaginary permission slip or some seat at some imaginary table, we let ourselves in to our God-given gifts, we let ourselves in to our endeavors, the things that have been put on our heart to do. I'm excited because this episode is featuring. First of all, let me say this it is June, it is Men's Health Awareness Month, men's Mental Health Awareness Month, the month of Father's Day, the month where we really give the men in our lives their flowers. And so if you're seeing this, you will have already seen men like Deshaun Robinson, who I respect and love my dad. You have already seen him like Deshaun Robinson, who I respect and love my dad. You have already seen him on the show, and now you are going to witness an episode with the man I love the third most in my life. There's my husband, there's my dad. And then there is my little brother, jared gerald.

Jared Gerald: 2:27

make some noise, everybody well, oh yeah, I did, I did hello, hello uh guys, this is my brother.

Lish Speaks: 2:36

Um man, one of my best friends, one of the best people I know, just a true I'm already getting emotional. Just a heart, a heartsy guy. My brother is the person who I learned that being emotional and having feelings don't mean that you won't knock a person out. That's who I learned that from. He's the embodiment of tough, strong, protector, provider, but also will cry, will tell you how he feels, will play with his kids, will roll around on the floor.

Lish Speaks: 3:23

You are really an incredible person and I'm going to give you your flowers today, but before we do that, I have the best segment in podcasting. It's called what I'm Stepping In. This is where I tell you guys what I'm stepping in for today, and you're in for a treat, because I actually have not done this for a few episodes. I've kind of been slacking. We've been having some guests that kind of had to go and things had to be quick, and my brother stunted on me today. He came in with a shoe that is one of my grails that I do not have and if you know my sneaker collection, most of my grails I have or have had and sold.

Jared Gerald: 4:02

I have never had these, so I'm actually going to let you go first for the what I'm stepping in segment of the show. Okay, I used to be an avid sneakerhead, like big time going to flight club.

Lish Speaks: 4:13

Yes, making me get up to go to Vinny's to wait for Supras, if you don't know what Supras are. You were not a sneakerhead, you wasn't outside.

Jared Gerald: 4:21

But I'm going to let y'all in. They had their time in the sun. No-transcript. They had their time in the sun. I am wearing the SB Lowe De La Souls. Yes, and I got blessed with these by a raffle and I remember when I got the call to pick them up, I was ecstatic. Yes, because you know how it is when you get a sneaker through raffle and it's like excited to spend your own money.

Jared Gerald: 4:50

Yeah, yeah, it's like oh man but I think I got these when they first came out. So it's like 175, which by today's standard is great, because I know these are selling for some crazy prices, but I I love them and, you know, taking care of them.

Lish Speaks: 5:08

Yes, yes, yes. So, yeah, man, he got on Daylight SVs you and only Wanda has a pair. One of my best friends, wanda has a pair. I do not have a pair of these shoes. I don't even have a pair of the other ones the yellow and white, the high top ones.

Lish Speaks: 5:30

Every time I see them, either the price is more than I want to pay for a sneaker. That's that old or they're not in good condition, and so I'm very jealous, but nonetheless, I'm happy for you that you got them. I'm stepping in the white cement fours, the 2025 release. I never had a pair of cement fours when they first came out. That's not true. Actually ended up getting a pair of somebody, but they were so old that they fell apart because they were new. And I've done that with a couple of jays and I've decided if I buy sneakers off somebody, they got to be worn, because I don't want no more sneakers falling apart on me, but I was able to go ahead and get these um Shout out to Soul Play.

Lish Speaks: 6:03

It was dope. I actually pulled up to Soul Play a couple weeks ago when the day that they dropped and there was a line outside and I was like, restore the feeling. Restore the feeling it was good to see. I got there about 20 minutes before the store opened so I didn't have to wait outside for long, but it was people out there. So I love to see you know releases first come, first serve releases and people just being able to get their hands on shoes in the moment, not having to do raffles even though raffles are dope, not having to order online, just being able to go to the store and pick up a sneaker. Me and my best friend, jasmine, growing up, we used to stand outside of VIM or, if you're from Brooklyn, vims Only when I went to high school in Harlem and people was calling it VIM.

Jared Gerald: 6:47

I'm like you mean.

Lish Speaks: 6:48

VIMS? Yeah, like what are you talking about? I think only Brooklyn people say VIMS, but anyway, we used to go stand in front of VIMS and wait for VIMS to open to get our Jordans. So we've been sneakerheads as long as we can afford sneakers, yeah yeah, because I have one story about waiting in line for sneakers.

Jared Gerald: 7:05

I believe it was for the Concord.

Lish Speaks: 7:07

SBs.

Jared Gerald: 7:08

I did it one time, and one time only, and it was the worst experience that I've ever had, and this is something I would only do. You know, I think I was like 20 something, so at that time it made sense. But looking back at it now it's like, bro, I just could have waited there's a lot of stuff I wouldn't do.

Lish Speaks: 7:28

That I did in my 20s.

Jared Gerald: 7:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah um, they were the concord sbs, I believe, or the space jam sbs, and you had given me the money to get them for, I think, a birthday present or whatever, I don't remember that and I was like all right, I gotta wait.

Jared Gerald: 7:44

And this was in Soho, at a skate shop I can't remember the name of the skate shop. So I go there early. It's already a lawn forming, you know, and I'm like all right, this will be good. You know, I'm wearing shorts, got a cardigan on. I think I'm doing it, man. Then the nighttime comes, it get cold. It get real cold. I pull that cardigan close and I had to sleep on a bank floor.

Lish Speaks: 8:14

Nah, that's crazy. You had to go inside.

Jared Gerald: 8:16

Yeah, I had to go inside at some point. So it was me and a couple other people I think. I think my brother, kyle, might've been with me or somebody I knew might have been with me. We wound up sleeping on a bank floor across the street from the skate shop and then morning came and that's when all the chaos started, because if y'all know anything about a dope sneaker released in New York, it usually it could go either way. It could be real cool or it could turn real violent, like I know y'all remember, like the pigeon fiasco and all of that. This one it was heading that way. It was heading that way because some dude got cut in line and he brought his mom and his mom was ready listen.

Jared Gerald: 9:01

Not from your mom. Listen, listen. Your mother's your first protector. She was ready to cut people. It was a very tense situation, but I got the sneakers.

Lish Speaks: 9:13

I got the sneakers.

Jared Gerald: 9:15

I get in, I got out, you know. So again, it's like it was comedic now when I think about it, like I would not do that now.

Lish Speaks: 9:23

Yeah, no, no, no. So I'm loving that I'm having this conversation with you, because normally when I do what I'm stepping in, I just do it and I move on. But if you guys are seeing this, you know, like we really are not new to this. True to this, I really love shoes, I really love sneakers. I dare say I passed that on to my little brother. He surpassed me at one point. He was very much about that life, um. But yeah, I remember buying you your first pair of Jordans. They were, uh, gray and green fives oh yeah, I wore them.

Jared Gerald: 9:54

Things to the grave for your like 12th birthday or something.

Lish Speaks: 9:58

Mind you, I was only like 15. I really thought I was doing something with my little brother but I took my little money.

Lish Speaks: 10:03

I'm like I'm gonna buy him these jays because he didn't have no jays and I I was doing something for my little brother. But I took my little money. I'm like I'm going to buy him these J's because he didn't have no J's. And I was the one in my family where my father had to buy me the sneakers. My brother and my sister could kind of like want something, and if they couldn't get it they'd be like if I couldn't get it, it was a problem. And I'm still that way. And so I had all the sneakers my brother got out. We got to start getting his sneaker collection up. So, yeah, you know, we are not new to this, we're true to this. That's what we're stepping in. You know what we say here. If you like him and in his case, if you can find him, go get you some.

Jared Gerald: 10:32

And afford him.

Lish Speaks: 10:33

That part All right. So, jarrett man, so Jarrett, it is June and June is Men's Health Month, men's Health Awareness Month. It's the month that we talk about men's mental health, men's physical health, men's emotional health the most. And you know, I've been interviewing and talking with men who I really love and respect and it's been so eye-opening because I think a lot of times as women, we can minimize men's health to all right, how you doing? When's the last time you've been to the doctor? But it's so much bigger than that. And I think also, men minimize their own health so much because society doesn't always allow you guys the space to say I'm well, I'm not well, I'm sick, I'm tired. It's like, listen, things got to be done and I got to do them.

Lish Speaks: 11:24

So, for that I want to ask you you know, how are you, how is your mental health these days and what do you feel like the people around you, your community, could do, if anything, to improve it.

Jared Gerald: 11:38

That is a loaded question because there there's no simple answer to it. Because there's no simple answer to it, you know you can say things like well, you know, if I had more time off of work, or if I made more money, or you know, whatever the case may have you, there's no real straightforward answer to it. It's one of those questions that you know the answer to but you can't express it where it's like I need this or you know this would help. But I think what is helping is asking men those questions and it becoming more normalized and saying, hey, man, are you okay? You know what's going on. It's okay to talk about it.

Jared Gerald: 12:28

Yeah, because I know for a long time there's been stigmas around. You know, talking about your mental health, especially as a man, you know, and even for women they kind of push it under the rug, but I know more so for men, like you said, you kind of got to. You know things have to get done and I need to be doing them. So you know, again, I'm grateful for the air and the space and the time to talk about these things.

Lish Speaks: 12:56

Absolutely Well, we're going to talk. I feel like a lot of men struggle silently, even my own husband. Sometimes I'm like are you OK? Like I know you're happy overall. You know, I know you're, the life's not terrible, but you know, you've been through hard things. There's a lot of pressures of being a man. There's a lot of pressures of being a husband, especially to a wife who. So the other day I was like do you wish you married someone who was less, less ambitious?

Lish Speaks: 13:24

he was like baby, no, but I'll be having us all over the place like all over the place doing everything uh, and so, as a, as a husband, as a father, you know what you're gonna get into talking about my beautiful, amazing, smart, strong, courageous, amazing nephews. But you know, as a husband and a father, how do you fight your battles and let people in, let your wife in, let your family in, or do you?

Jared Gerald: 13:57

Well, I'll say this my wife prays for me a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, A lot. Yes, you know, because I'm not I wouldn't say I'm the most in this in this point in my life. I'm not the most open person. You know, I feel like a lot of times men don't want to burden other people or be seen as complaining about, you know issues or things like that. But I talk to my wife, you know, every now and again she checks on me. She's like, hey, you know how are you doing? And I'm like, bro, this system, this system is it's systeming man. Yes, yes, it is, the conspiracies are conspiring and you know, uh, there's a meaning, there's a meaning we can say give a brother a break.

Jared Gerald: 14:58

Yeah, how much more can I take, um, you know. But, like I, my wife really prays for me, she checks on me and she does a wonderful job of really trying to let me know that I am valued and appreciated and loved. And I know a lot of times that might not be some a man. A man's love language is, you know, words of affirmation or things like that, you know so I appreciate hearing it. Yeah, it definitely helps battle the societal thoughts that you know, I know myself and most other men have, where it's like bro, I just don't feel like I'm doing enough. You know, I'm just don't feel like this, I don't feel like that, and it's like. You know. I want men to know that. You know if you are doing your best, truly if you're doing your best, and your family is provided for, you know they're not hungry, there's a roof over their head, your children are laughing and smiling and your wife is happy. You are doing the great work.

Lish Speaks: 16:07

You're doing a great job.

Jared Gerald: 16:10

So definitely take that time and take those moments to appreciate that.

Lish Speaks: 16:15

Yeah, that's good. You are a father of three, which is crazy. Bro, Slow down.

Jared Gerald: 16:29

Leave that girl alone, alone. Listen, if there's one thing. If there's one thing I want any anyone to take away from this, this podcast today is fun leads to family. Just remember those wise words that if you having fun, it might lead. You know that that that's.

Lish Speaks: 16:50

That's how my three guys just trying to have some fun man, you know too much fun. Um, so it's so funny because the last two were pretty much back to back, yeah, and so in, in, in my wedding photos you know, you and Jackie are holding Gideon, and then here comes Zion.

Jared Gerald: 17:09

Yep.

Lish Speaks: 17:09

And people be like wait, that's not the same baby. I'm like that's not the same baby.

Jared Gerald: 17:13

They just got the same face.

Lish Speaks: 17:15

Yes, and they are what a year apart, Year and a half Year and a half apart.

Jared Gerald: 17:19

Yeah, gideon just turned two in March of this year and Zion is going to be turning one years old in August so yeah, yeah, y'all was a plan runner.

Lish Speaks: 17:33

Runner up and you know, when I look at you with your sons, it is it's probably one of the most healing things in my life for a lot of reasons, but the biggest reason is because you know, you did not have what you are. You did not, we did not have, but you, specifically because you're a boy and you have sons, you did not have the father that you are. Um, and you know, when I was um doing my episode with dad, which you'll see, um, he was very honest about that, you know, very honest about the fact that watching you is like a miracle to him because he knows he wasn't. He didn't do that for you, for us, you know, and so, as healing as it is for me to just watch, I've wondered and I wanted to ask you what has being a father healed in the fatherless boy in you?

Jared Gerald: 18:49

being a father healed in the fatherless boy in you. That is definitely a question because it's healing, but it's scary too, you know, to be honest, because there is no blueprint for me. You know, and I know a lot of other men and families have faced this. You know there's no blueprint of, well, how should I do this or how do I go about this. You obviously know what not to do. You obviously know what not to do. Don't leave, check. But you know, after staying, there's so much, there's so much, there's so much more.

Jared Gerald: 19:24

And I was, I was at work and we were having this conversation about what it means to be a provider. And being there financially is a form of provision, but it does not make you a provider. There's a, there's a fullness that comes with the word provider. You know. It comes with emotionally being there, mentally being there, physically being there, spiritually, being there in all those senses, and not to say that you won't fall short, but it's the getting back up and being there when they you know, when they fall, to help them get back up, that makes someone a provider, you know.

Jared Gerald: 20:08

So it's definitely been a journey raising three boys, and I want my children, I want my sons to know freedom, to know you know emotional freedom, physical freedom, spiritual freedom. Know emotional freedom, physical freedom, spiritual freedom, mental freedom. Because a lot of times your, your oppression of yourself as a man, starts when you're young. You know just from my experience, because you know we're told from a young age that we have to be kind of stalwart emotionally, like we have to be this wall and you do have to be strong, like that's just point blank about being a man. You have to be strong because there are things required of you in your life that if you are not practicing strength as a man it will break you. Yeah, it will break you and you might not be able to lift yourself back up and back up yep.

Jared Gerald: 21:13

You know, we were just watching an episode of Black Mirror, me and my wife, and it was an episode where this guy got his heart broken and 15 years later he's still mad at the woman, still mad at her, still upset about everything she did to him.

Jared Gerald: 21:34

And it comes to find out that it was all because of one misunderstanding that took him down this road of destruction that basically left his life in shambles. And that can happen to a lot of men, because for us, we are passionate. I'll say that when men put something on their heart or put something on their mind, they give it their all. Yes, so when it kind of doesn't work out or it falls to pieces, it's harder for us to kind of get back up and go at it, you know. So I definitely want my sons to know that I will be there no matter what. Yeah, that I'm going to help you carry your burdens, I'm going to encourage you, I'm going to help you see through the things that you want to see through. Yeah, you know, because I love them and I want them to know that they will always have that support.

Lish Speaks: 22:38

Yeah. You know, yeah, yeah, do you feel like there are things that you learned from our father? And I shouldn't say I said that you were the fatherless boy in you. I shouldn't say that we were not fatherless. Our father was around, yeah, periodically. He always say he never missed the birthday, he never missed the graduation, never missed the holiday. The months in between he never missed a graduation, never missed a holiday. The months in between were murky, but once we became adults, it actually like flipped.

Lish Speaks: 23:20

I'm talking about flip side, and so for me there's been a lot of healing in that relationship because, kind of the way you talked about your sons just now, I feel like that's how dad is now with us, like he wants to walk us through anything. He wants us to know he's here for us, that he has our back, that he'll do anything, which, to be honest, I need it more now than I think I needed it as a kid. So I'll take it. But in that journey of healing your relationship with our dad, you know what has that done for you? What has that done for you as a man?

Jared Gerald: 23:52

it has. It has closed wounds that you kind of thought didn't hurt you.

Lish Speaks: 24:02

You know, like you have that you like told yourself didn't hurt. Yeah, it's like. It's like like you have a that you like told yourself didn't hurt you.

Jared Gerald: 24:06

It's like if you have a scar and you're like the scar doesn't hurt, but it's a reminder. You know, and I think that's definitely what it was the scar of, you know, my dad not being around as much as I would have liked you know, has healed. You know has healed yeah, you know, with his newfound vigor in being in our lives. I remember that when it first started.

Lish Speaks: 24:33

You thought he was sick. I thought he was dying he was like yes, I thought he was 100. You think dad got cancer or something?

Jared Gerald: 24:40

I was like no, I thought he was 100% on his way out of here, because it was, it was that much of a change. Yes, I know, for me it was that much of a change. For me it was like nah, bro, he got to be on his way out, he got to be like listen, man, you know, yeah.

Lish Speaks: 24:58

I knew that wasn't the case because dad and I had had our own personal conversation. I think it kind of staggered, like it started with me and him having certain conversations and then he started changing you know, and then you know I think it went down to Sefra and then to you. I think, honestly, he was his most nervous with you Because I think a man knows when he hasn't done right by his son.

Jared Gerald: 25:18

Yeah.

Lish Speaks: 25:18

You know, and I think for you, you know, there was a part of your life where you were so angry. We all felt it. It's like we don't even know how to reach Jared, you know. I mean they would send me like, can you talk to Jared? And I'd be like, all right, I'm going to talk to Jared. They would always be like you need to tell your brother. I'm like, ok, I'll talk to Jared. I was so happy when you got married and even she used to try to call me and I said uh-uh, uh-uh, uh-uh, that's yours. Now Don't call me, that's yours.

Lish Speaks: 25:50

But I think he was afraid that you wouldn't accept him. You know that you wouldn't accept the apologies and I think you know it took you time, you know. But what was the thing that I think? Well not. I think I have my thoughts, but I think, well not. I think I have my thoughts. But for you, what was the thing that helped you really forgive dad, move forward, because I think so many men are holding on to so much anger toward their fathers and they need some sort of encouragement or guide to how to forgive.

Jared Gerald: 26:20

Okay, well, what helped me forgive my father honestly was in great part to him, his persistence, his determination in in being there, and I know a lot of times sons might not have fathers't have that heart to seek you out. The next best thing you can do is just really work on yourself and forgiving him, because if he's not coming to you know right, that wrong then continuing to hold on to that is only going to make the wound fester more and deeper. That is only gonna make the wound fester more and deeper. Yeah, uh. But if, like myself, you are blessed to have, you know, a father who can admit his wrongs and can and wants to seek, reconciliation reconciliation.

Jared Gerald: 27:18

Then y'all was like retribution, I got you brother. Yeah, reconciliation, that's a start and you know if he's coming to you being honest, because a lot of times people can come and not be prepared to receive the truth of the hurt that they've done to you. You know they might come and just want it to be washed under the rug, like, hey, I'm here now, so all of that stuff.

Lish Speaks: 27:49

I'm human. Nobody's perfect. I hate things like dad has never tried to wash over his stuff with those type of tropes you know which. I so appreciate, yeah, the accountability yeah, thank you.

Jared Gerald: 28:01

That's it. If there, if you know your, if your father, who's coming back into your life years later, is taking accountability for his wrongs, I think that's a great step in you really starting to grow in forgiveness, because that shows, hey, listen, I know I did wrong by you. I'm not blaming you, I'm not saying it was your. I'm not blaming you.

Lish Speaks: 28:26

I'm not saying it was your fault. I'm not blaming anybody. I'm not blaming your mother, because a lot of fathers do that. Well, your mother would. No, no, no. Even if that's true, if you're going to come back into your child's life, take full accountability, yeah because you know I would move and have moved heaven and earth for my children. Yes, you have.

Jared Gerald: 28:47

We won't get into that I have moved heaven and earth for my children and there's nothing, there's nothing in my mind that I can logically be like. You know what I'm going to. I don't want to. I could. My wife went to Florida for a week and took my children and I was as as much as I enjoyed the peace and quiet. I was like they're my world. If I, if I don't have them, then I kind of don't got nothing.

Jared Gerald: 29:23

It's like, oh, when y'all coming back, you know, oh, again, going back to men who are seeking to reconcile with their father. If your father is coming to you in a place of humility and honesty, I think you have to accept that and then go from there. There will be arguments, there will be fights, you will say things that are going to hurt him and prayerfully he is open to receiving that. Now don't just be like yo, you trash, like. Have some, have some civility, have some compassion. Have some compassion because he's coming back right, because he, he.

Jared Gerald: 30:09

It takes a lot. It takes a lot for a man to to come say he's wrong, you know, and especially in such a major way, like it takes a lot for a man to say, hey, I'm sorry, I did not raise you. I'm sorry I was not around to encourage you and teach you and train you up in the ways that I should have. And that is a a systemic issue within our people, because my father had the same thing with his father and I'm sure his father had the same thing with his father. And you, if you have sons, you want to be the curse breaker, you want to be the chain breaker of that curse, of that. Oh well, you know, I didn't have a dad, and this, that and the third, this is this is.

Jared Gerald: 31:06

It's not a funny story, but it's a funny story. I remember, a long time ago, we were in a church in Brooklyn and we were I think it was the either campus or teen ministry, and our teen worker asked us what are we all doing for father's day Day? And all the boys looked at each other and started laughing Like, bro, what are you talking about? Father's Day, you mean, second, mother's Day. So, you know, I, prayerfully, all of us, you know, and if we have sons, you know we are teaching and showing our sons the love that we would have wanted to receive from our fathers. Yeah, yeah, had they, you know, had the understanding and capability to do such, yeah, that's good.

Lish Speaks: 32:00

Let's talk about the relationship of a mother and a son. Let's talk about the relationship of a mother and a son, right, because we were raised in a single parent home with our mom and even earlier today you know you were talking about the sneaker thing. You were like the mom's, the first protector. That's not the natural order of things, but that's the way we grew up.

Jared Gerald: 32:23

Talk about how your relationship with our mom informs the way that you parent and how you are as a father. My mom is a very lovely woman, yes, and she, in all her ways, she's patient. Yes, she's understanding.

Lish Speaks: 32:33

It's a good time.

Jared Gerald: 32:34

Yeah, she's patient, she's understanding and I will say this, I'm grateful for the woman that she was and is continuing to grow in, because you have a lot of times parents are not open to having conversation with their children. Yeah, like, my mom is in her best way, always seeking to be a better parent to her children, and she may step in it sometimes, but she can apologize. Yes, you know she can apologize and I appreciate that. I will say what I've learned from my mom and being a dad is you have to really love your children and meet them where they are, when they are where they are yeah, um, she talked about that.

Jared Gerald: 33:34

I don't know if you saw the episode with she and I, but she talked about that. Yeah, you know, um, because once you put, if you try to push your child beyond where they are, it may very well first of all hurt them and turn them against you. Yeah, because your child is not meeting the expectation that you're putting on them and, at the end of the day, that's really what your children want.

Lish Speaks: 33:59

Yeah.

Jared Gerald: 33:59

You know, especially at a younger age, like my six-year-old, all he wants and my two-year-old.

Lish Speaks: 34:06

My babies.

Jared Gerald: 34:08

All they want is for me to be proud of them.

Lish Speaks: 34:11

Yes, they want your approval.

Jared Gerald: 34:12

They want my approval, they want the accolades, and you can't always give it to them, especially when it comes to correction. My six-year-old when he was first born I would say he was a perfect child Blept, you know, eight hours as a baby. He wasn't a crier, he was perfect, perfect, very different from his brother, very different. So he wasn't a big trouble. He didn't get in trouble. But when he started getting in trouble, he did not like it. He, he was like bro. I thought we was cool, like we was dogs. What's going on? What you mean? I'm getting pow, pow. Yes, you know, but you still, in those moments and those teachable moments, you still have to let them know that, hey, I'm, I'm doing this to help you grow into a better man, mommy was very good at that.

Jared Gerald: 35:10

Yeah, you know, and you can't just correct them without explanation. You know, you can't teach them without experience.

Lish Speaks: 35:20

Yeah.

Jared Gerald: 35:21

And that's what I feel like mom would let us have. Mom, let us have experience.

Lish Speaks: 35:29

Yes, she, let us have our feelings. Yeah, you know we did not grow up in an emotionally shut down home. Yeah, we had our feelings. We had our family talks. We could tell our mom what we liked and didn't like. We could tell each other what we liked and didn't like. Yeah, it was a very affirming home. We couldn't really tease each other too much. We had to like sneak and tease each other.

Jared Gerald: 35:50

We could have like call each other stupid.

Lish Speaks: 35:51

That was like we could tease each other.

Jared Gerald: 35:52

We couldn't like call each other stupid. That was like we couldn't call each other ugly.

Lish Speaks: 35:55

My siblings couldn't make fun of me being darker or whatever, like we would have to certain little playful things, but my mother didn't play. That it was. You're going to speak highly of each other. You're not going to speak or you're not going to speak at all. You know, and I really you know, as you go. Let me know if you've had the same experience.

Lish Speaks: 36:22

As I get older and I be around people, I'll be realizing like wow, we were really raised well, yeah, oh, no, trust me, I've met some people with some trash parents Like, oh wow, yeah, even with dad not in the home, he was still a great father compared to some people's fathers?

Jared Gerald: 36:31

Yeah, definitely. Some people's fathers who live with them a great father compared to some people's fathers.

Lish Speaks: 36:32

Yeah, definitely Some people's fathers who live with them. I'm like you know what? It wasn't that bad. It could have been worse. It could have been worse. It could have been worse. I never felt like my parents didn't like me or didn't love me. There were times where I felt like I disappointed them or that they compared me to my big sister or whatever, even though they tried not to yeah.

Lish Speaks: 36:50

You know, and I think some of that stuff too. As I get older, I realized that was just my internal feelings, like I. I remember feeling a lot like very misunderstood. But then also, when I look back on my childhood, people would ask me questions and I'm the one to explain myself. Well, girl, yeah, yeah, they're not going to understand, right? So if there are some things that I know that I could have been contributing to, or just you know, the enemy wanted me to believe about myself, right, because there's spiritual things at play too. It's not just you know, you and what you teach your kids. There's a whole ecosystem.

Lish Speaks: 37:25

They're friends at school what they're watching on TV, the music, and so I really do think through, think about that and think, you know, about my childhood in that way. I wanted to ask you this how has faith, has your faith, which I feel like has gone through so many different iterations and growth and you know you've become a person who really is deeply rooted in your faith? How does your faith inform the way you parent? Because we grew up in a very faith-informed home.

Jared Gerald: 37:54

Yes, I don't know if you know I probably spoke about it, but my mom prayed through New Year's one time. Yes, you know faith.

Lish Speaks: 38:04

Yes, she was a praying woman.

Jared Gerald: 38:06

Yeah, we were.

Lish Speaks: 38:07

The story that he's alluded to is. We were on New Year's Eve. My mom made everything a thing Like holidays were so fun, so beautiful, candy, every week decorate sheet. My mom. One of the things that I want to imitate, if the Lord allows me to be a mother, is that she made things fun. So New Year's Eve, you know she would get us sparkling cider and snacks and pigs in a blanket and whatever else you know hors d'oeuvres.

Jared Gerald: 38:36

Like we'd get like a little party for our family, yeah.

Lish Speaks: 38:40

And so she would usually pray, like you know, up until like two minutes before the ball dropped. Well, one New Year's Eve she's praying, praying, praying, praying, praying, praying, praying, praying.

Lish Speaks: 38:49

heaven down, and then we're trying to like like, get her attention, because the board is about to drop and she's and lord, help these children to understand that there's nothing more important than praying to you. She, though, she done prayed through the ball dropping, which was the whole point that we stayed up for, and so, when she got up, she was like oh, I'm so sorry y'all. I thought, y'all was getting impatient. It was the the funniest thing.

Jared Gerald: 39:13

So, yes, we grew up, yeah, especially even hanging out after church Hours Just chatting. Yes, so you know the way my faith influences my parenting is in the sense of I have to be the example to my sons. I have to be the example to my sons. My wife cannot be the example to my sons. She has, she has her role as their mother. You know the tender vessel they. They can, they, my sons, can come to me and be comforted, you know. But they get a different and more fulfilling comfort from their mother, more so when they come to me it's hey, what's going on? Okay, I know, I know you didn't enjoy that, but you got to keep trying, you got to keep pressing on, you got to keep, you know doing it, especially like he, uh, my son. Now he got a skateboard, a longboard.

Lish Speaks: 40:14

Yes, I saw he's doing his thing.

Jared Gerald: 40:15

He's riding on it and he's so happy, but when he falls it's like, oh man, but he's growing in that and I'm seeing the fruit of the lessons of hey, you got to persevere, you got to stay strong, you have to push through it. You know, when you say persevere to a child, they're like what are you talking about? It's like, sorry, talking to a six-year-old. You got to keep going, you got to try again, because if it didn't work this time, it might work next time. And even if it doesn't work next time, you shouldn't give up. Yeah, you know. So that's kind of one thing I really want to continue to teach my children is perseverance, perseverance and patience. Yeah, because a lot of things in life come from patience, come from, you know, just being slow to speak.

Lish Speaks: 41:09

Yeah.

Jared Gerald: 41:11

And quick to understand, you know, and really hearing someone out in their fullness, hearing out a situation in their fullness. You know I want my kids to have great discernment. I feel like that's definitely something me and my wife have grown in leaps and bounds in in recent time is discernment. Bounds in in recent time is discernment because growing up you learn or you have these moments where you give to people that you shouldn't you give, you give of yourself to people that you shouldn't and I don't want my children to learn that too late because that can be so harmful. Yeah, you know, giving of yourself to someone who isn't appreciative of it, who is manipulative, who is just taking advantage, and I would love for my children to avoid that situation in its fullness if possible, but if it forbid it happens, I want them also to have the tools to overcome those feelings and be able to still press on.

Lish Speaks: 42:24

Yeah.

Jared Gerald: 42:25

You know so.

Lish Speaks: 42:26

Yeah, that's good. How do you use your relationship with the most high to, I guess, regulate your emotions and your feelings?

Jared Gerald: 42:40

It's a complicated relationship, it's definitely a complicated relationship, but I will say that from my younger age till now I have grown immensely in being slow to anger. I, growing up, was hot-headed, crash out Big time Right, and let me say this Anybody who knows me those situations were rightfully so.

Lish Speaks: 43:10

Yes, never without reason, I will give you that.

Jared Gerald: 43:15

Listen, I've grown, I believe in diplomacy, I believe that we should have a conversation first and if the conversation doesn't work out, then we can go to other options. But let's talk first because I can. I can admit if I'm wrong and I don't think I don't think a lot of people accepted that for a very long time, because there were instances when you know me and my wife, we were, you know that, that stage before wifehood, that that stage before wifehood fiance ship, where people would come to her and say things about me to her and she would, she wouldn't tell me as a form of protecting me, and you know we've had this conversation multiple times and even years later. It's like you have to tell me these things so that I can then talk to this person and address the situation, because if I, if I truly wronged you, let me, let me go about it the right way and say, hey, you know what, I apologize, I'm sorry that what I did came up that way. That was not my intention and I apologize for it being received as such.

Jared Gerald: 44:37

But if it was just some foolery, like, oh well, I just don't think, jared, is this like somebody told my wife that they did not believe I was going to be a good leader to her. And in that moment, uh, you know my wife, like I said, she's she's a prayer warrior, so in that moment to her that was a very big thing and she prayed and you know it was shown otherwise. But stuff like that, yeah, hurts men, because that's what that's our role. We are leaders and I'm not going to say I'm a perfect leader, but I'm definitely not You're pretty good, I'm doing it, You're pretty good boy.

Jared Gerald: 45:27

Doing a bang up job. You know what I mean.

Lish Speaks: 45:44

You know what I mean, but it's, it's instances like that, where someone feels like they have a level of access to you where they can say these certain things and then walk away and you're saying they're not going to walk away.

Jared Gerald: 45:51

No, we're going to have a conversation. We're going to have a conversation, and I think a lot of times people don't want to have that conversation. People just want to say what they want to say to you and go on about their way, and I'm not that. I'm not that kind of person. Even even at my job. Even at my job, I'm very, I'm very enthusiastic.

Lish Speaks: 46:09

We are confrontational people. I won't say confrontational, I'm confrontational I won't say confrontational, I'm confrontational.

Jared Gerald: 46:14

I won't say confrontational, but I'm willing to confront. Yeah, yeah, maybe that's.

Lish Speaks: 46:19

I'm not confrontational Unnecessarily, yeah, I actually think I'm pretty Diplomatic and logical yeah.

Jared Gerald: 46:27

I feel the same way, but I'm just gonna talk.

Lish Speaks: 46:29

I'm not gonna be feeling All these feelings and they not saying nothing. I'm too going to be feeling all these feelings and they're not saying nothing. I'm too grown you know what I mean I'm not a child and I'll talk to my parents, friends, family.

Jared Gerald: 46:38

I'm going to say what I need to say Because the way I'm playing it in my head. I'm being disrespected.

Lish Speaks: 46:41

Yes, the way it's playing in my head.

Jared Gerald: 46:43

You're talking real crazy and it's not making me feel good. It's not making me feel good and I would like to feel good. I would like for you to feel good, Right.

Lish Speaks: 46:54

Yeah, I would like the hawk inside of me to stay inside.

Jared Gerald: 46:56

Yeah, yeah, I don't want to turn green. Yeah, yeah, you know like if I don't have to feel this way then why feel? This way. No, truly, truly, truly, for real.

Lish Speaks: 47:07

Speaking about that young crash out, Jarrett, who has changed? You've changed so much. Let me just say this you, you've changed and kept all the best parts of yourself.

Jared Gerald: 47:17

I hope so, I hope so.

Lish Speaks: 47:18

I really feel that way. I feel like you've gotten softer, but not soft. I feel like you've gotten way more responsible, but not you haven't lost your fun, kiddish, goofy side. I definitely feel like you've grown in discernment and I it's taken me. It took a specific situation, you know, in our family for me to realize that, like he knows what he's doing, I may not always understand it, I may not always agree with it, but he knows what he's doing. He knows what he's doing and he knows why he's doing it.

Lish Speaks: 47:55

And sometime, you know, with the men in our lives, especially if you're a big sister or mom, whatever you just have to let them live. You cannot control or manipulate. You know, I think when it comes to me and you, we've had some, some intense moments when it comes to being there for each other in really hard times. I feel like we've seen each other cry and hurt in different ways that maybe other people in our family didn't physically see, even though they may know of the situations. I always tell people if someone did something to me. I'm calling my brother. You know what I mean. I'm on your head. It's not, there's no. You know, my husband has a lot to lose Job wise, and he's going to be with my brother. But I'm calling my brother. Maybe not now because you have three kids, but without the three kids.

Lish Speaks: 48:48

I'm calling my brother Cause you're, you're, it's you, you're going to be hurt, like you're going to know not to ever mess with me again. So I feel like we have a very specific relationship and I feel like you and Sefer also have a very specific relationship, like we're very blessed, and I think that because it's our family and it's just our normal, we don't realize that other people don't have this. You know, like the forgiveness we have all forgiven each other, and just and true forgiveness not like forgiveness with like a little bit of spice on it.

Lish Speaks: 49:20

I still feel away like true forgiveness, true understanding, true having those hard conversations. We've had difficult conversations, but we all had to sit and listen to each other, Um, and I think that it has been so healing. It's been so healing because I I feel, like the parts of ourselves that maybe we didn't know how to communicate clearly as children. We've learned how to communicate them as adults. So what I'll say is what I ask is what would you tell your younger self? You know that, that that he was going to be when everyone else, maybe even family, was telling him that he couldn't be this or that. What would you say to that kid?

Jared Gerald: 50:06

You know it's funny. I feel like I've thought about this and I did not know what to say. I feel like I've thought about this and I did not know what to say, but even in this moment, it's still kind of hard to come up. Continue to be you, but be open to being a better you sooner, you know. Be open to being a better you sooner, yeah, sooner, yeah.

Jared Gerald: 50:50

Because I know for me, a lot of times when I think about I'm not, I'm not one of the people that's like shoulda, coulda, wouldas, but every now and again when you shoulda, coulda, woulda, um, it's like man. If only I had the understanding, the, in the emotional level that I have now, I feel like things would be as much different as I could make them. It's like I can't go back to, like the 08 housing crisis and buy a house. I was in, like I think I just finished high school, um, but there are so many emotional pitfalls that I came across in my life that, had I had the better understanding and the discernment that I do now, I think I would avoided a lot of unnecessary, a lot of those unnecessary pitfalls. So, you know, that's what I would tell myself is be you, but don't be afraid of being the best you, or a better you you know, because that is what is going to help you down the road and, you know, help you avoid these certain sand traps.

Lish Speaks: 52:21

I feel like I remember, you know, there was a time in our relationship when we were living in New York and you were just so freaking hard headed man. You were grown and we would talk about stuff and you would call me for advice and not take the advice, or, you know, and I used to think to myself what is wrong with this boy. And I think that one of the things that, as black women especially because, again, you were raised in a home with two sisters your mom, you when we went to be with our extended family, it was all girl cousins pretty much that would come around consistently. Your grandma, your aunts, yeah, your uncles, weren't really around consistently. I'm talking about like we used to go to my grandma's house like every Sunday.

Jared Gerald: 53:08

You were sometimes the only boy period, right, and so you grew up hearing a mouthful from women about what they think you should do, what they think you shouldn't do how you should do it, and I think sometimes, as women, we don't always understand what a man actually needs from us, right?

Lish Speaks: 53:26

he doesn't always need, even as a sister or mom, you to lay a heavy hand of opinion on him or, you know, he doesn't always need to know that what he did is not something you approve of or whatever. And I feel like I've had to learn as you've got, as we've gotten older and especially as I've gotten married, the best way to communicate with a man to actually be helping him and not just be, you know, telling him what you think, actually be helping him and not just be, you know, telling him what you think. So in that, in that vein, what do you feel like you can tell black women specifically, but women in general? All right, not that face.

Jared Gerald: 54:03

I've made that face because it's like, ooh, this is, this is one of the things. It's like, oh, no, he canceled, we'll edit it out if you say something crazy.

Lish Speaks: 54:12

But yeah, what can you? What can you share with us and share with those? Assume these are women who actually want to help. This is not the men ain't nothing. It's not that woman, the woman who actually wants to help, who loves, who appreciates, who affirms you know, for all of our opinions, I think you grew up in a very affirming, you know situation in black women for the most part. But in general, you know, what would you tell us? What could we have done?

Jared Gerald: 54:40

differently. And what can we do now? Well, first and foremost, black women are amazing Sisters. Keep doing great, keep succeeding, keep growing, keep being beautiful, I will say, and beautiful, I will say.

Jared Gerald: 54:52

From my personal experience, my wife is my biggest advocate. Yeah, sometimes to a fault, but she is very conscious of and how. She is here to help me and help our family. And I think in in this, in this new world that we've come to, a lot of it's been shown or told that, oh, oh, a woman needs to be more than a mother and a wife and a homemaker, and making that your goal as a woman is silly in this, that a core value in a, in a great marriage. And then a great woman is a woman who is, who understands her role and and and is like, listen, I'm here, you're going to support me, I know that and I'm here to support you in in whatever way you may.

Jared Gerald: 56:08

If it's just listening, you know, I feel like a lot of times men may not feel heard by their significant other. So, you know, just listening. You know, ladies, just listen to your man. Sometimes I know y'all want the same thing, y'all be like, oh, just listen to us. But men are solution oriented. Sorry, but just listen, because sometimes your man might just want to talk or he might not want to talk.

Jared Gerald: 56:37

A lot of times I know a lot of times silence and women are like, but he's being quiet, is he upset? No, he's, he's, he's just content. He might be thinking about, you know, something that happened to him at work or something that happened to him in a video game, or he, you know whatever. It's just like man, I should try that. I don't want to beat that boss, you know, whatever case may be, but just you have to know your man and you have to know how to support the man he is. Yes, you know.

Jared Gerald: 57:15

So if you feel, if you feel like, oh, I don't know how to support him, yeah, just watch him, talk to him, really listen to him when he's speaking about things that are on his heart or matters that are important to him, and from there you can learn how to best support him. It might be having the house clean when he comes home from work. It might be having his food already when you know he gets home from work, or it might be hey, babe, you've been working hard, let's take this time off. I know you're off this weekend. Do you want to? I kind of made a plan. Do you want to go out and we go for a hike, or, you know, we go relax, or whatever the case may be, you know. So there are tons of ways that I know you women who have ingenuity.

Lish Speaks: 58:13

I say ingenious, ingenious creative.

Jared Gerald: 58:17

You know, big hearted women will definitely find a way to encourage a man because that's really what they need. They need, they need encouragement, they need reinforcement of, hey, what you do is appreciated. And you know, I feel like, definitely in my household, from my wife. I get that in strides, even from my children, like if I go to sleep and they don't see me, I'll wake up and come out the room and they'll run to me arms up yay, daddy, know, daddy's up, we missed you. Or if I go to the bathroom and I'm in the bathroom for too long, um, they're like oh, daddy, we met. I'm like, bro, I don't know where y'all I'm not going nowhere I'm.

Jared Gerald: 59:09

I'm one of the main two people that's with y'all all the time I'm, I'm here you know they love you. Yeah, so you know, just be that support system that you are to him, but be the support that he needs. It's like my sister said in a recent clip help that isn't helpful ain't helpful, you know it's very true. So be helpful help. Yeah, be helpful help.

Lish Speaks: 59:39

No, for real, and I think even you know. I want you to speak to the community of women around black men because, yes, if you have a wife, great, but you also have sisters, you also have a mom, right, you also have female friends, I'm guessing, or at least you used to.

Jared Gerald: 59:54

No new friends. No new friends. I told my husband he got married the friends you got now.

Lish Speaks: 59:58

that's the only female friends you got now. You ain't gonna make another female friend ever again. God bless you. Um, but uh, but no. What can your community of women do you know, to be there and support you?

Jared Gerald: 1:00:10

I think the community of amazing, smart black women can. Okay. So this is, this is uh, this is a whole another thing. But society has made women, especially black women, feel like they need to take the reins, that they have to. Man not doing it I'm doing it myself, and that is also in part on us for not fulfilling that role of protecting our women, of being there, of, you know, making the moms have to change tires and stuff like that. But I think black women have to see men make a return to form, make a return to hey, we want you to know that we are here to protect you, that, yes, it's great that you can protect yourself, it's great that you care for yourself, but we are here to you know, show you that you are loved, you are valued and respected. And I feel like, in definitely more so recent times, that within our black community has it's on a weird influx Sometimes it's high, sometimes it's low Depends on what podcast you?

Jared Gerald: 1:01:29

watch. You know, I think, again, we have to go back to our, our doo-wop credentials of women are to be protected and I think, once black women don't feel like, oh, I have to do it myself, me, you know they can kind of soften up and get back to being the, the life givers that they are, because I know a lot of, I know a lot of women deal with this struggle, with having, you know, an inner masculine energy, and they're like yo, I don't want to, I don't want to be the bro.

Lish Speaks: 1:02:13

Yeah, like I'm tired of being the bro. I want to be me. I want to be the bro. Yeah, like I'm tired of being the bro.

Jared Gerald: 1:02:16

Yes, I want to be me. I want to be girly, you know.

Lish Speaks: 1:02:20

I would do that for sure.

Jared Gerald: 1:02:23

So I want our community of women, especially, to start getting back to that, because that is how you will you will heal. That is how you will heal, that is how you will find peace within yourself, when you start getting back to how you are supposed to be. When something, when a, even a creature, when a creature or animal is living outside of its role, it does more harm than good its role, it does more harm than good, you know. So when someone, if a man, is living outside his role, not being provided, not being a protector, it does more harm than good. Yeah, you know absolutely, and I feel like society has kind of made it a 180 of where oh well, you know the man, he has to you can still be soft as a man and still be masculine, absolutely 100%. Being soft doesn't mean doesn't have to have any negative connotation, it just means that you have a welcoming personality.

Lish Speaks: 1:03:34

And it also means that you are not afraid to show your humanity. I tell people all the time. You know, my husband is a lot like my brother Very. They can be very fun and very goofy. They have the emotions. Sometimes they can wear the emotions on their sleeves, sometimes they can play it close to the chest and it, my husband, really had to reframe my idea of masculinity in the sense that masculinity is not just I'm a shoot from the hip, I'm a blow. I'm a. I'm a blow up every time I don't like something. I'm a. You know, because that's what we grew up around. We grew up around men who were angry and you know, in terms of like, when I say grew up around, not necessarily the men in our lives, but the men in our environment, you know, we grew up in Bed-Stuy in the 90s. You know, and knock somebody out they look at you wrong or talk to you wrong was par for the course right.

Lish Speaks: 1:04:25

And learning a different way of dealing with things from seeing my husband has helped me understand that that's the most masculine thing. Being soft and welcoming and warm is so masculine because it allows me to operate the best in my feminine. I know men who are masculine and macho and they're harsh with their wives and they can't navigate their wives' emotions and that, hey, you shouldn't say that to her. That's hurtful, that's going to hurt her self-esteem, that's not a funny joke. You know what I mean and I'm just so grateful for the growth I feel like I've seen in black men in general, because I feel like we're in a situation I love what you said returning to form. I feel like we're in a situation where people are going to return to form and I also think, if I could just speak to the women, you know, I think when it comes to black men's health, black men's mental health, black men's physical, spiritual health we've got to remember that their job is to protect us, but part of our role and job is to respect them. Protect us, but part of our role and job is to respect them. So many black men's mental health. I speak to a lot of men, a lot of husbands, but a lot of men in general, and so many of their mental health problems come from not being respected, being spoken down to, being neglected, be it as children or as young adults, being told what they weren't over and over and over again.

Lish Speaks: 1:05:58

And I think I've learned, if you know, if the Lord gives me sons which please, don't play like that, give me daughters, please but if the Lord gives me sons, one of the things I want to practice with them, and one of the things that I practice even with my nephews, is firm affirmation. I'm going to be firm with you, I'm going to correct you, I'm going to tell you, I'm going to steer you in the right direction, but it's always going to be in the affirmative, not in what you aren't or can't or shouldn't. It's going to be. You know, these are the things that you need to be doing so that you can become this great man that I know you already are, and I believe that that is one of the ways that we can really contribute to the health of our brothers, our husbands, our fathers, our friends.

Jared Gerald: 1:06:41

Definitely. You got to speak life, you know, into your man. You got to speak life into your brothers, your uncles, the men in your life, because they might not hear it anywhere else. I think you know, a lot of times, men, I don't know I could let me, I can speak for myself. I can say sometimes I feel solitary as a man, you know, because, again, it's not like we're always speaking about our feelings and we're like you know, in those moments where it's like, hey, you know, man, I'm feeling like this or you know, I'm thinking about this.

Jared Gerald: 1:07:20

But you have to have the ability, especially women, especially our sisters, aunts, mothers, wives, all of that. Y'all have so much power in what y'all say. It can, it can really make or break the man that you're speaking to, you know. So, definitely I would encourage, if you can, if you can say something nice to one of the men in your life that you love, if you can see him changing and becoming better, encourage him on it, because he might not think anybody sees it. He might be like you know what Nobody sees me change, nobody cares about this. Yes, and if you say, hey, you know, I see you. I see you being more patient, I see you being more loving, I see you being more understanding. That would go a long way, yeah.

Lish Speaks: 1:08:10

I'm quick to send my brother a text Like I'm so proud of you I was just thinking about you and you're a great dad and whatever you know, because sometimes I just think about him and I'm like man, he's a great man, like beat the statistics, he's, he's. You know some of the things that people thought about him and would say about him and whatever you know, they didn't say it to my face, yeah well, yes, no, but certain things you gave people some reasons to say some things, not most, I mean.

Jared Gerald: 1:08:42

I listen, I did not say I was a perfect, but anything anyone ever had to say about you in the past.

Lish Speaks: 1:08:48

they can never say it down at all and that, to me, is so like that's just the gangsters thing you've ever done and I seen you do some pretty gangster stuff, but the most gangster thing you've ever done is become an amazing father, husband, provider. I always say our relationship is beautiful. I wish we talked more. That's on both of us. It's not like I'm calling him and he's not calling me back.

Jared Gerald: 1:09:16

we just be busy life is life, life is life, but.

Lish Speaks: 1:09:20

I know that we can always. I can always talk to my brother if anything is on my heart. I remember years ago when Ava DuVernay did that movie. I think it was 13 13 yeah and you called me and you was just crying like, yeah, that still, it still breaks my heart.

Jared Gerald: 1:09:37

Now there's a that that was an eye opener for me, you know, because you, you really don't. You don't think in the sense that you're just hated for no reason and when the reality is that you are disliked and looked at less than because systemically held down because of the color of your skin or, you know, whatever the other, whatever the other, many reasons may be that they feel they have the right to do such things to create laws.

Jared Gerald: 1:10:17

You know laws yes that and and and this is still happening, yeah you know, there are plenty of uh, people in places that were alive when we were still, you know, three-fifths man, and many of those people are still in powerful places, or their descendants, or their descendants. So that was, that was eye opening for me. Yeah, because it wasn't. It wasn't at the forefront of my mind.

Lish Speaks: 1:10:49

And see, it was always at the forefront of my mind because I've always been the resident black studies history person in our family and so you know, when you called me I'll never forget I was on this one train outside of about 180 or something, 190 something street.

Lish Speaks: 1:11:05

I was at work and you called me and you was like I'm just, I just can't take it. Like you know, and we've had many moments like that you know where you were at the rock bottom of a situation and I got a phone call and I cherish being one of because I'm not the only. Obviously, your wife is number one but I cherish being a soft place to land for you. I cherish knowing in my heart that the rubber, when the rubber, meets the road. You know that you can talk to me, you know that you can call me. I cherish being allowed to be such a great part of your children's lives. I always tell people, you know, when I'm with my nephews, if I need to correct them on something my brother's like did you hear what your auntie said? It's never like don't tell my kids, you know, because some people are weird about their kids.

Lish Speaks: 1:11:53

I cherish how you and Jackie are like are you listening to your aunties? Are you listening to Uncle G? I really just cherish our relationship. I look forward to Lord willing us growing old and telling our stories and our children being grown and all those things, because I just appreciate who you are and I appreciate being your sister, like you know, knowing that I have a brother who is so in tuned with so many things, I feel like I can talk to you about anything. My brother is like he's like my dad in this way too, like you can bring up any topic and you will have an informed conversation Like why are we talking about this right now? But just informed conversation. I appreciate that about you. I got a couple of questions before we go. When's the last time you cried and what did you cry about?

Jared Gerald: 1:12:41

Oh, when was the last time I cried? Okay, I think, all right. So songs will make me cry. I will cry to a song quick, like I'll be in the car, family next to me, I'll start crying. The wife will look at me. She's like you, okay, like I'm just, I'm all right. This song is just is hitting right now. I think the last time I may have cried was either to uh, my sacrifice by creed, my Sacrifice by Creed, or there's an artist, I think his name is Anise, and he has a song called I Won't Let you Slip, and it's a beautiful, lovely song. I think that was either one of the two most recent times.

Lish Speaks: 1:13:31

I've cried my brother's also an intense music connoisseur and put me on to all my non-black music growing up the fray, yeah, yeah. Adele yeah, he put me on to Adele, he put me on to Amy Winehouse right, and you were young. Yeah, like how did you even know about Amy Winehouse?

Jared Gerald: 1:13:53

I don't even know yeah. I've always we. I like this. We've always been a very big music family. Yes, absolutely so you know I love music, you know she, she's done music, I've done music. I believe our sister used to do music, so we've all had some.

Lish Speaks: 1:14:09

Yeah, some music.

Jared Gerald: 1:14:11

Some music experience, yeah.

Lish Speaks: 1:14:13

All right. So last time you cried was a song. Okay, I don't know this about you. Have you been to therapy as an adult and if so, how was it? If not, why?

Jared Gerald: 1:14:23

Okay. So yes, I have. Okay, I did not know that. This was years ago when I used to live in New York, okay, and I was working for NYCHA and I had a boss who was just like it was. It was just plain out harassment. It was just plain out harassment. He was actively trying to get me fired and just doing all this unnecessary stuff. So I wound up having to go to therapy for that, because I just was not in that moment in a great space and I also think I had to go. So I didn't lose my job, but I went and you know how I was feeling as a man and the things that I was facing and dealing with. But she did the best she could and I appreciate it.

Lish Speaks: 1:15:30

Would you go to therapy now?

Jared Gerald: 1:15:38

now, yeah, yeah, I think about no, no, no, seriously, seriously, seriously, seriously. A lot of times I think about it because it's like sometimes you just need to talk to somebody. I would definitely go to a male therapist, a black male therapist, because I need somebody who understands, or you know, hopefully they understand, yeah, kind of my mindset and what I'm going through and this, that and the third. But I definitely think it is a great outlet for people who kind of feel like, okay, I don't have anybody else to talk to. Or if you feel like you don't want to burden a loved one, which it shouldn't be, if a loved one is making you feel like sharing how you feel with them is burdensome they're not your person.

Lish Speaks: 1:16:22

They they.

Jared Gerald: 1:16:23

Yeah, they're not the person you need to be talking to about these feelings, but I think it's a great outlet and I feel like the stigma around it is uh being lifted more and more daily, because I know a long time ago you should be, oh, you, in therapy. I'm not, are you crazy? But I feel like now, more so, it's okay, especially, you know a lot of jobs have an employee something program, epa, I believe, or EAP, something like that. Oh, employee assistance program, yeah, eap. Epa is environmental protection agency, you know, and that uh allows their workers to go talk to therapists. So, if you have that and your perks, use it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lish Speaks: 1:17:10

I think therapy is helpful because you get to talk to someone and you don't have to care about how they feel about it. You don't have to care about if it's overwhelming them or burdening them or you don't have to ask but how are you?

Jared Gerald: 1:17:22

you know, sometimes when you talk to somebody, you unload them and then you're like but how you?

Lish Speaks: 1:17:26

doing, you know you don't got to worry about that with a therapist. So that's one of my, one of my very favorite things. Um, when you think about us as kids and then you see where we are as adults me, you and sephora, our older sister how does it make you feel? Is it like this is what I expected, or is it like different?

Jared Gerald: 1:17:45

I could. I honestly could not imagine, imagine this. Like you know, uh, sometimes I'll speak to my uh brother and there's a video of us rapping kyle yeah, kyle, yeah, there's a video of me, me, kyle and dylan doing a song.

Lish Speaks: 1:18:06

It was an amazing song kyle is his one of his best friends and dylan is one of his friends, but both of them were in your wedding. Yeah, dylan is my one of my male best friends as well.

Jared Gerald: 1:18:15

Um yeah so it's us performing a song and each of our wives are in the room and we had no clue. We had no clue these were the women we were gonna marry. We had no clue these were the women we were gonna start families with. Yeah, so when I think about my sisters and myself, I don't know what I imagined our lives to be, but I'm grateful for the lives that we have. You know, you have an amazing husband and he is. He's just a all around great guy, loving, caring, funny. My sister Sephra, amazing baker. She has a, she has a pet dog, a fur baby. You know, just a big heart, sincerity. You know, really just compassionate.

Lish Speaks: 1:19:13

She's the best sibling we could ask for.

Jared Gerald: 1:19:15

Yeah, she really is it, she's the best sibling we could ask for. Yeah, she really is, you know. So I think. I think, however, I could have imagined it, what it has become is better than that. Yeah, yeah, you know, because I know we've spoken about imagination before. You always imagine. Anytime you imagine something, it's either always perfect or worse, or worse than it's ever going to be so for, for what we have become. I think it's perfect.

Lish Speaks: 1:19:40

Yeah, I agree, it's amazing. And I let me just say this about you and my husband seeing y'all together is like my favorite thing. They get to talk about the games and the movies and the Marvel and the trope and the anime and joking, and you know I get outnumbered. I'm like I'm gonna leave y'all to it, cause I say something to my husband and then my brother started defending him. I'm like all right, you having a, you having a brother moment.

Jared Gerald: 1:20:05

I'm a dispassionate third party.

Lish Speaks: 1:20:08

I love it, um, but you know, just growing up in a home where you didn't have a brother to be with you, in those moments it's like so cool to see y'all together. So I appreciate that. I appreciate that. Okay, we ask a question and I have a bunch of other questions to ask you. Let me just look through them to make sure there's no other one. And I really want to ask, um. No, the other ones I can leave, um, I will. I will ask you our last question, and it's a question that we ask everybody who comes to our couch, and that is, in the grand scheme of things, what do you want your legacy to be?

Jared Gerald: 1:20:46

I want to. I would love and like to be remembered and spoke about fondly as a great father, a great husband, a great brother, you know, because it's those things that motivate people. When you think about someone you love and how great they were and how they affected the people, how their light illuminated the people around them. It motivates you to continue in the good work, to continue being a light to the people around you. So I would love and am doing my best to be and leave that legacy behind for my sons.

Jared Gerald: 1:21:37

I want my sons to know that their father loved them and loves them. I want my wife to know that. You know, I think that she is an amazing, perfect and strong woman and I appreciate how she has been down for me from day one. Yeah, you know. And I want my family you know, sisters, mom, dad, cousins, aunts, uncles, all to know that I appreciate everything that you guys have done for me, all the kind words, all the lessons, and you all have played a part in helping me to become the man that I am today.

Lish Speaks: 1:22:20

Yeah, aw, I love that. What's your favorite lesson I've ever taught you? Can you remember?

Jared Gerald: 1:22:26

There's tons, there's a lot. I feel like the most valuable lesson you taught me and it's one I teach, yes is integrity. If you have to have integrity as as a person, because if you're not an integrable I don't know if that's a word if you're not an integrable person, nobody will want to be around you or deal with you, because you are a liability, and even the people who love you will keep away from you because you don't have any integrity. They don't know what. They don't know what you're capable of. Um, and I feel like you taught me that, and that is a a a very lifetime lesson of be a person with integrity, because that will always benefit you.

Lish Speaks: 1:23:23

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Let me. Tyler's episode is my brother's keeper and when you think about how you've been kept in relationship with your sisters we talked a little bit about you know how how that has gone but I want you to talk about how other black men your brothers, your friends, mentors, maybe even have been keepers for you and how important that is to our community.

Jared Gerald: 1:23:52

That is great. Black men need black men, you know. And you need your brothers, you need your support system of brothers who can come around you and understand, because there's a difference between men and women. That's just fundamental. And sometimes your female friends or your mom or your sister or your wife may not understand the male feelings, or the male, you know. I guess feelings is that you're male experience, thank you. Perfect, the male experience that you're experiencing, that you're having I know, and it's kind of sad, a lot of my stories when it came to it, you have to show up. If you're going to be a mentor to a young black man or you're a father to a son, or a brother to a brother to a son, or a brother to a brother, uncle to a nephew, you have to show up.

Jared Gerald: 1:24:58

I have great uncles. My uncle Tony I love him and he will make you laugh. Yes, he is comedy embodied. I have another uncle, uncle Corey. He is where I get all my nerdy stuff from. He's, you know, and we get that from. They got that from their brother. My Uncle Bernard, you know may his soul continue to, you know, be found peace and be rested have played a part in helping me, first and foremost, love comics, but also growing understanding and how to be better.

Jared Gerald: 1:25:45

Even growing up in the church, I can think of people like Lee Damon, rick. There are so many influential men that I've had in my life that I can thank for taking the time of not only being patient with me but having the heart to stick through, say is, just show up for your brother, show up for your nephew and be that support for him. Yeah, you know, don't, don't be there to be like oh, I told you so, man, you know, even if you know it's not gonna work out, be there to support him when it doesn't say hey, man, I'm. I know you was really banking on that. I know you really wanted that to happen. I'm sorry it didn't happen for you brother, let's let's figure something else out and get you back. And get you back, you know, trying again. You know. So just show up, be available, you know, and that's that's, that's, that's that's how I would help.

Lish Speaks: 1:26:56

Yeah, that's good. That's good. This has been a great episode. Thank you for being here.

Jared Gerald: 1:27:00

It's been a pleasure to be let in by myself Period.

Lish Speaks: 1:27:03

Yes, you let yourself in. Well, my brother. Before he sat down on the couch, he baked us some brownies. My brother is an amazing baker and cook as well. Me and my sister and my brother all throw down in the kitchen and thank the Lord, because my mother stopped cooking for us about 15 years ago, so she used to throw down too. But it's been a minute, so we're getting ready to enjoy some blondies. But I want to say this to you If you stuck around this long and listened to this whole episode, first of all, thank you for being here.

Lish Speaks: 1:27:32

Thank you for listening. If you're listening on Holy Culture Radio, if you're watching on Holy Culture's YouTube, or if you are watching this on my YouTube, I'm so grateful that you're here. Please subscribe to whatever channel that you're watching us on. Subscribe to my YouTube Lish Speaks any podcast platform that you are listening to this on. We would love to hear your feedback. So if you could go ahead and write us a review telling us what you think, go ahead and give us thumbs up, five stars, likes, comments, shares, all the things so that the algorithm can spread this podcast to like-minded people. Our encouragement here is that you let yourself in, let yourself into the thing that is burning within your heart for you to do. Let yourself into the thing you've been put on this earth to do, because all our time is limited and we never know you know when it's going to be up. So I want to encourage you don't stall anymore, don't procrastinate anymore, don't wait anymore. Go ahead and let yourself in, and I will see you back here, same time, same place, next week. Peace.